The Tal Wilkenfeld Thread

[DaveCustomMade]

Bass playing, . . . .and especially GOOD bass playing, has always been a "good ol' boy's club", so when an attractive and young lady walks into the club, she's gonna be noticed, respected, and often lavished. A 30 year old guy is. . . . just another "good ol' boy". We've seen a BUNCH of them!

 

[MikeBass]

Of course looking at other bass players her age, past(Jaco) and present(Hadrien Feraud) is she really that good for her age?

Hadrien...he's only like 23 or something and on tour with John Mclaughlin(sp last name??)
His solo CD...WHEW!!! Out of this world.

 

[Peter Parker]

Hadrien...he's only like 23 or something and on tour with John Mclaughlin(sp last name??)
His solo CD...WHEW!!! Out of this world.

Exactly, though I'm not crazy about his CD. I've hung out with Hadrien, Tal is not in his league, not even close. Yet here we are in a huge thread about Tal. Where's the Hadrien mega-thread? though I actually prefer Tal's CD from a listening viewpoint

 

[Akami]

Exactly, though I'm not crazy about his CD. I've hung out with Hadrien, Tal is not in his league, not even close. Yet here we are in a huge thread about Tal. Where's the Hadrien mega-thread? though I actually prefer Tal's CD from a listening viewpoint

By this reasoning there should be less Squier or SX threads and more on Shuker.

Everyone wants to talk about what they want to talk about and this thread would be just a footnote on TB if no one was interested; I mean look, even you can't stay away!

 

[basey]

I haven't read this whole thread, so forgive me if I repeating.
I love the fact that this young talented girl is getting some attention from the good ol' boy club.
My daughter (12) is getting along quite while on the stand up and electric.
Its nice to have a some women for her to look up to that aren't playing the T&A cards,
and also playing with the heavy hitters no less.
When she saw the Crossroads concert on PBS she was excited, to say the least.

$.02

-bruce

 

[JacoLesFlea]

I haven't read this whole thread, so forgive me if I repeating.
I love the fact that this young talented girl is getting some attention from the good ol' boy club.
My daughter (12) is getting along quite while on the stand up and electric.
Its nice to have a some women for her to look up to that aren't playing the T&A cards,
and also playing with the heavy hitters no less.
When she saw the Crossroads concert on PBS she was excited, to say the least.

$.02

-bruce

Well said, My neice (13) loves playing the bass, even cuts her friends short on the cell if they call when she is playing and lists Tal up there with JPJ, Jaco, Geddy, Entwistle, Jamerson some pf the players that she admires. Tal is a good role model for young future musicians....and I mean musical talent not T&A crap as you put it.

 

[CrazyArcher]

^ +1 on that.

She kinda looks like my sister

 

[Norwegianwood]

Exactly, though I'm not crazy about his CD. I've hung out with Hadrien, Tal is not in his league, not even close. Yet here we are in a huge thread about Tal. Where's the Hadrien mega-thread? though I actually prefer Tal's CD from a listening viewpoint

Well, obviously bass (and jazz for that matter) is a boys club. So when talented girls enters the scene, no wonder they draw plenty of attention. And off course some guys are gonna be jelous. But hey, welcome to life, you might just get used to it sooner than later. (Not speaking to mr. Parker whom I quoted).

Personally, I hope Tal inspires more ladies to pick up our wonderful instrument.

 

[JacoLesFlea]

^ +1 on that.

She kinda looks like my sister

bad for you good for the rest of us...is your sister spoken for.

 

[KJung]

Exactly, though I'm not crazy about his CD. I've hung out with Hadrien, Tal is not in his league, not even close. Yet here we are in a huge thread about Tal. Where's the Hadrien mega-thread? though I actually prefer Tal's CD from a listening viewpoint

I'm not sure I would agree with that. Hadrien definitely has more chops, but there is much more music coming out of Tal IMO. Their CD's are night and day to me... Tal... grooves, beautiful tone, taste, melodies, maturity. Hadrien... massive, massive, massive, massive chops (and, god help us, another cover of Giant Steps... there should be a law against that!)

I do agree Hadrien's CD has more of the 'bass hero' thing going, but Tal's sounds like a 'bassist/musician' to me!

It's like the difference between Dave Weckl and Steve Jordan... both great at what they do. However, while I am amazed at Weckl's chops, I sure like Steve Jordan better in every other category!

 

[Peter Parker]

I'm not sure I would agree with that. Hadrien definitely has more chops, but there is much more music coming out of Tal IMO. Their CD's are night and day to me... Tal... grooves, beautiful tone, taste, melodies, maturity. Hadrien... massive, massive, massive, massive chops (and, god help us, another cover of Giant Steps... there should be a law against that!)

I do agree Hadrien's CD has more of the 'bass hero' thing going, but Tal's sounds like a 'bassist/musician' to me!

It's like the difference between Dave Weckl and Steve Jordan... both great at what they do. However, while I am amazed at Weckl's chops, I sure like Steve Jordan better in every other category!

I would agree with you about the musicality of the two with the given evidence. But, having spent a couple days hanging with Hadrien, hearing him play things in different atmosperes, he has much more musicality than his CD suggests. I was at the rehearsals for the US tour J Mac tour, watched for hours as they got it together an then also jammed around, Hadrien has an incredible sense of groove and time. Melodically, he was playing some incredible lines. I think, to me, Tal's CD is better, more interesting to listen to. I think she used her skills to the best of her abilities and made a nice CD. I believe Hadrien used too much of his skills and didn't focus on the song, making a CD that shows his youth. Like they always say, girls generally mature sooner than boys and Tals CD show this. I think when Hadriend matures and uses his skills to enhance great songs the differences between the two will be very obvious. I personally don't think Tal will ever reach the technical level of Hadrien, she may not even want to. That said, Hadrien may never have Tals sense of song. It will be interesting to see how each progresses.

 

[KJung]

I would agree with you about the musicality of the two with the given evidence. But, having spent a couple days hanging with Hadrien, hearing him play things in different atmosperes, he has much more musicality than his CD suggests. I was at the rehearsals for the US tour J Mac tour, watched for hours as they got it together an then also jammed around, Hadrien has an incredible sense of groove and time. Melodically, he was playing some incredible lines. I think, to me, Tal's CD is better, more interesting to listen to. I think she used her skills to the best of her abilities and made a nice CD. I believe Hadrien used too much of his skills and didn't focus on the song, making a CD that shows his youth. Like they always say, girls generally mature sooner than boys and Tals CD show this. I think when Hadriend matures and uses his skills to enhance great songs the differences between the two will be very obvious. I personally don't think Tal will ever reach the technical level of Hadrien, she may not even want to. That said, Hadrien may never have Tals sense of song. It will be interesting to see how each progresses.

+1.. and again, I wish I had 1/10th the talent of all these players we talk about. My critique's are made as a listener and lover of bass guitar, not as a 'fellow player'... just to put that in context.

Yes, I can only comment on the Youtube stuff I've seen Hadrien play with John M, and the CD. Both leave me totally flat (tone, note choice, absolutely no space EVER anywhere in his solo's... kind of a 'junior Tommy Kennedy' sort of thing to my ear.

I really tried to like that Hadrien CD, but just couldn't. The production/engineering is pretty average also... mushy sounding. Tal's CD sound quality and mix is first rate IMO.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I would agree with you about the musicality of the two with the given evidence. But, having spent a couple days hanging with Hadrien, hearing him play things in different atmosperes, he has much more musicality than his CD suggests. I was at the rehearsals for the US tour J Mac tour, watched for hours as they got it together an then also jammed around, Hadrien has an incredible sense of groove and time. Melodically, he was playing some incredible lines. I think, to me, Tal's CD is better, more interesting to listen to. I think she used her skills to the best of her abilities and made a nice CD. I believe Hadrien used too much of his skills and didn't focus on the song, making a CD that shows his youth. Like they always say, girls generally mature sooner than boys and Tals CD show this. I think when Hadriend matures and uses his skills to enhance great songs the differences between the two will be very obvious. I personally don't think Tal will ever reach the technical level of Hadrien, she may not even want to. That said, Hadrien may never have Tals sense of song. It will be interesting to see how each progresses.

No disrespect intended, but HF may never have the musicality that Wilkenfeld is showing. Did Maynard Ferguson ever become Miles Davis? Assuming her musicality is just a by product of her gender is selling her short as a musician, IMO.

 

[KJung]

. Did Maynard Ferguson ever become Miles Davis?

That's a great quote and pretty much sums it up (not necessarily regarding Hadrien, but in general!).

 

[Peter Parker]

No disrespect intended, but HF may never have the musicality that Wilkenfeld is showing. Did Maynard Ferguson ever become Miles Davis? Assuming her musicality is just a by product of her gender is selling her short as a musician, IMO.

I'm not sure how you got that I thought Tal's was musicality was a byproduct of her being a girl. I was only saying that with maturity one is able to let go of the ego and focus on the song as opposed to writing a vehicle to display chops. Possibly, with Tal being a girl she matured sooner and is better able to focus on writing good songs, a place that Hadrien will hopefully grow into. Let's face it, she doesn't have the chops to put out a chops fest CD that will get her any sort of attention. Thankfully she created a CD of interesting and listenable music. Hadrien was able to take his advanced chops make an inferior CD and still get attention. I think he's better than his CD suggests or his playing with J Mac shows. I chalk it up to youth. I remember when I was his age playing in a little jazz group. Every solo I took I'd play incredibly fast without any real musical or melodic taste. During that time I thought it sounded great. Listening back now I'm embarassed. I had more chops then than I do now but I'm a much better player now. Anyway,like I've said before, I prefer Tal's CD. Also, my very last line in my other post was that Hadrien may never reach Tal's sense of song.

 

[Wilbyman]

No disrespect intended, but HF may never have the musicality that Wilkenfeld is showing. Did Maynard Ferguson ever become Miles Davis? Assuming her musicality is just a by product of her gender is selling her short as a musician, IMO.

Actually, you're comparing deceased horn players to very young bassists. We are all well aware of the legacies of MF and MD...but these kids both have alot of playing and developing ahead of them.

Kenny G used to play hip. Joe Pass wasn't a big name until he was in his mid 30s. Who is to say? Who are you to judge?

I was listening to some keith jarrett today and keith did some kind of fast flourish that I know I have heard in hadrian's playing. There probably isn't another bassist in the world who could play it. Maynard fergueson?

 

[KJung]

Actually, you're comparing deceased horn players to very young bassists. We are all well aware of the legacies of MF and MD...but these kids both have alot of playing and developing ahead of them.

Kenny G used to play hip. Joe Pass wasn't a big name until he was in his mid 30s. Who is to say? Who are you to judge?

I was listening to some keith jarrett today and keith did some kind of fast flourish that I know I have heard in hadrian's playing. There probably isn't another bassist in the world who could play it. Maynard fergueson?

I think what Anthony meant was that Maynard started out blowing chops right out of the gate and never really developed into anything else (not that there is anything wrong with that!). Of course, Miles evolved and developed until the day he died.

I think Anthony's point was that initial chops level has very little to do with potential as a musician, and if anything, can be a negative, especially if everyone is telling you how burning you are at a young age

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Peter Parker, I feel that suggesting that her musical vision is simply the result of maturing sooner because she is a female diminishes what she did to a simple a by product of her gender instead of a recognition of her artisitic sensibility. I re-read your post, and I that is what I took it to mean. You wrote it, and I am sure you know what you mean, but it sure looks like you are saying that her musicality is a direct result of a gender related maturation process.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Who are you to judge?

Someone with an opinion, just like you.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I think what Anthony meant was that Maynard started out blowing chops right out of the gate and never really developed into anything else (not that there is anything wrong with that!). Of course, Miles evolved and developed until the day he died.

I think Anthony's point was that initial chops level has very little to due with potential as a musician, and if anything, can be a negative, especially if everyone is telling you how burning you are at a young age

Thanks, that is exactly what I meant.