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The Trifecta: Loud, Small, and Deep

Bjazzman

Bjazzman

Dec 7, 2004
2,732
1
46
Madison WI
www.myspace.com
#1
So i know there is a law out there that states you can't have all three. But could you give up having the small part of it but still make it lightweight?

For example, instead of having 2 cabs like a 12/6 and a 15, why not make them into one cab but still make it lightweight?

Do you sacrifice anything by giving up weight?
 
#2
It costs to do ultra-lightweight construction. So you sacrifice money. Some companies go fairly light though - lighter than the same drivers have been seen in in the past - and it's because usually they are sacrificing rigid and properly damped walls. That in turn sacrifices decent low frequency performance, and as SPL increases that becomes more apparent.
 
#4
besides portability why would someone want 2 boxes instead of 1?

I'm just invisioning the future of bass cabs like tennis racquets. they went through many changes from wood to now which is ultralight titanium? would this same technology cross over to bass cabs? at least in bracing?
 
#5
Bjazzman said:
So i know there is a law out there that states you can't have all three. But could you give up having the small part of it but still make it lightweight?

For example, instead of having 2 cabs like a 12/6 and a 15, why not make them into one cab but still make it lightweight?

Do you sacrifice anything by giving up weight?
Click to expand...


I reckon you missed one there - so you probably can have all 3 with a custom-built job using the latest materials and technology.

It would just be very expensive!!


So people often cite what they want - but don't necessarily think of the expense until it comes to handing over the cash.
 
#6
Bjazzman said:
besides portability why would someone want 2 boxes instead of 1?
Click to expand...

First off, i can't fit a big cab in the trunk of my civic coupe. second, it's nice to have option of bringing only as much as you need. If I'm playing an acoustic gig all i need is my schroeder mini12+L but for bigger gigs i can add on any of my other cabs depending on the sound I want. If all i have is a huge, albeit light cab, it's a little overkill for a small gig. Third, with the power handling of many of the high end cabs these days i would venture to say that more often than not the average player (not the arena rockers) is going to have plenty of sound with a simple 12/10 or 12/12 and a decent head.
 
#7
Bjazzman said:
So i know there is a law out there that states you can't have all three. But could you give up having the small part of it but still make it lightweight?

For example, instead of having 2 cabs like a 12/6 and a 15, why not make them into one cab but still make it lightweight?

Do you sacrifice anything by giving up weight?
Click to expand...

In a word, no. Weight doesn't enter into the relationships that describe speaker response. Magnets can be made lighter, boxes can be designed with stiff, lightweight panels, of course electronics can be made smaller and lighter.

+1 to multiple boxes. I'm in the same boat as most of my gigs don't require a big amp, so I would be hauling a lot of gear for no reason if I had one big cab.

Now, getting to specifics, if you are combining dissimilar drivers like a 12 and a 15, there might be no weight savings, since you would need to subdivide the air space with a baffle to make it work.
 
#9
Bjazzman said:
this is going to be a stipid question: why get 8 ohm cabs at all then?
Click to expand...

impedance ratings are where i kind of get annoyed. If i want to get the most out of my amp I want to buy 4 ohm cabs but in the event that i want that same amount of power through 2 cabs i need to go out and buy two 8 ohm cabs. That's always frustrated me because I don't have the disposable income to have multiple cabs of different impedance ratings.

the solution i've come to at the moment is the Ashdown Little Giant 1000. It has two discrete 4 ohm 500watt outputs. Now i can use one or two 4 ohm cabs and the impedance load on the amp is still 4 ohms. pretty sweet.
 
#11
greenboy said:
I'm not understanding you here: why would you put a 12 and a 15 in the same enclosure?
Click to expand...

You didn't get it, Bjazzman. There is no good reason to put a 15/6 in the same box as a 12. You already have a 6 there to provide incredible midrange with great dispersion. You have a 15 to provide content below that. The 12 has no real reason to be there.
 
#12
greenboy said:
The 12 has no real reason to be there.
Click to expand...
Maybe the 15 is lonely? :D
brian v2.0 said:
the solution i've come to at the moment is the Ashdown Little Giant 1000. It has two discrete 4 ohm 500watt outputs. Now i can use one or two 4 ohm cabs and the impedance load on the amp is still 4 ohms. pretty sweet.
Click to expand...
You may be confused as to what you've got. There are two separate power amps, each rated 500w. If you only run one cab 500w is what you've got, not 1,000. And of the volume boost you get with the second cab only half of that is the result of the additional power, the other half is the result of the increased cone area.
If i want to If i want to get the most out of my amp I want to buy 4 ohm cabs
Click to expand...
That assumes that you actually need to 'get the most out of my amp'. If your amp is rated at even half what your speakers are, you don't. Very few speakers require more than half their rated power to drive them to full output. And the difference between a speakers full output and that with half the power required for full output is only 3dB, which is audible, but not huge by any means.
 
#15
Bjazzman said:
what about a box with 15/6 and a 4 for the highs? if the 4 inch replaced a tweeter would that give smoother highs than a tweet?
Click to expand...
-1, for the same reason why there's no reason to use a twelve and a fifteen, or even a ten and a fifteen for that matter. Contrary to popular belief one doesn't use different sized drivers for response reasons. One uses different sized drivers for dispersion reasons. The higher the frequency the smaller the driver must be to have useful dispersion. Using drivers with less than roughly a 2:1 diameter differential doesn't improve upon dispersion enough to make the addition of the smaller driver worthwhile.

And yes, this fact does run contrary to what you see on the G-C sales floor. Why? Because cabs are built to meet demand, and if customers insist that they want to buy certain driver and speaker combinations that's what manufacturers will offer.
 
#16
Bjazzman said:
would that give smoother highs than a tweet?
Click to expand...

The reason most bass cab tweets do not seem smooth is because

1) many of them are cheap, and on poor horn designs
2) even with the better ones the "designer" has them crossed over way higher than the woofer can reach with any decent dispersion, thus leaving a big hole in the frequency response. That hole makes what is above it stick out like a hammered thumb, harsh and unforgiving., unless turned down with the variable lpad.
3) bad crossover design that often lets too much of the horn's lower hump through while its upper capabilites are not properly helpd by CD compensation.

Good drivers on good horns sound - surprise - remarkably good : }
 
#17
billfitzmaurice said:
Maybe the 15 is lonely? :D
You may be confused as to what you've got. There are two separate power amps, each rated 500w. If you only run one cab 500w is what you've got, not 1,000. And of the volume boost you get with the second cab only half of that is the result of the additional power, the other half is the result of the increased cone area.
Click to expand...
That's what i was trying to say, but didn't quite word it properly. Thanks for clearing up the confusion i may have created :D

billfitzmaurice said:
That assumes that you actually need to 'get the most out of my amp'. If your amp is rated at even half what your speakers are, you don't. Very few speakers require more than half their rated power to drive them to full output. And the difference between a speakers full output and that with half the power required for full output is only 3dB, which is audible, but not huge by any means.
Click to expand...
Good to know, thanks again for the clarification.
 

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