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THEORY QUESTION: Double leaps larger than a major 3rd??

#41
AntiCharmQuark said:
For those of you saying theory is a guideline not a rule, I get that for sure. But like I said I want to learn the rules before I break them, or at least understand the context of he rules, which is what I was getting at with this post.

For those of you saying theory isn't always useful and can be somewhat outdated, I get that too, but I'm a physics PhD by day so I'm super into laws and rules :) I think learning theory and why it's around (even if it's not useful anymore) can be useful in its own right, not to mention pretty interesting!
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Before our copy/paste specialists show you all modes of the Major scale, we should clearly denote one thing.
Your question is (more) about composing/writing a Melody and (very) less about a comping Bass line.
Your quoted statement is a good advice for those who want to write a less random and more "logical" Melody.
You would get more proper answers at some "young composers" forum.

P.S. As a highly knowledgeable person (PhD in physics), you can easily program all those "hints" of "How to create a good Melody" and write an app for us - the bass players - called, "Simplified Melody" .
 
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#42
Whousedtoplay said:
Before our copy/paste specialists show you all modes of the Major scale, we should clearly denote one thing.
Your question is (more) about composing/writing a Melody and (very) less about a comping Bass line.
Your quoted statement is a good advice for those who want to write a less random and more "logical" Melody.
You would get more proper answers at some "young composers" forum.

P.S. As a highly knowledgeable person (PhD in physics), you can easily program all those "hints" of "How to create a good Melody" and write an app for us - the bass players - called, "Simplified Melody" .
Click to expand...

Yes, admittedly my post was more about composition than bad aotself, but I'm a bassist first and have only recently started delving into theory and composition, so talkbass is my go to music forum. Also, I figured it might be interesting to hear from other people who share my primary instrument and the way they approach these things. I should also say, I picked up things like all the modes and other disconnected tidbits from around the internet, but with no context or idea how to use them, which is why I decided to finally sit down with a theory book, even if it was free (especially since it was free) and there are some disagreements about it.
 
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#44
I didn't read through the whole thread, but which book?

I wouldn't be surprised at all if the context were 1950s Jazz. It sounds like something a bassist who primarily walks would say. If yes, definitely take that with a grain of salt. For example (one just off the top of my head), intervals as large as min/dom 7th abound in funk.

Music theory is a lot like science in that it tends to explain and illuminate what has already occurred and why it occurred.

I also have no idea what a "double leap" is. I've never heard the term in 50+ years of playing.
 
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#45
AntiCharmQuark said:
Yes, admittedly my post was more about composition than bad aotself, but I'm a bassist first and have only recently started delving into theory and composition, so talkbass is my go to music forum. Also, I figured it might be interesting to hear from other people who share my primary instrument and the way they approach these things. I should also say, I picked up things like all the modes and other disconnected tidbits from around the internet, but with no context or idea how to use them, which is why I decided to finally sit down with a theory book, even if it was free (especially since it was free) and there are some disagreements about it.
Click to expand...

All generic rules have exceptions!
While learning harmony - use a/any keyboard!

About writing melodies.
Pickup a song/melody (simple to start) that you like and try to analyze it by using your book's hints.
You'll see that some hints are "correct", some hints are "genre-oriented", some hints are "obsolete", some hints do not reflect new "ideas", etc...
 
#47
AntiCharmQuark said:
For those of you saying theory is a guideline not a rule, I get that for sure. But like I said I want to learn the rules before I break them, or at least understand the context of he rules, which is what I was getting at with this post.

For those of you saying theory isn't always useful and can be somewhat outdated, I get that too, but I'm a physics PhD by day so I'm super into laws and rules :) I think learning theory and why it's around (even if it's not useful anymore) can be useful in its own right, not to mention pretty interesting!
Click to expand...

The thing with any set of rules is to read them in the context in which they were written. The link in post #46 to the document looks like it is referring to a music-writing computer game, with the composition advice written by someone who was studying classical and jazz piano at the time.
 
#48
Melodic intervals of step, skip, and leap

Intervals.PNG


Melodic Intervals & Leaps in Songwriting


Leaps.PNG



Link Removed

Large.PNG
 
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#50
the text in question is the "intermediate theory" pdf in the Music Theory Book Free Download sticky
the quoted passage is on page 16.

The section is prefaced with this:

The "theory" of melodic movements is very old. Originally it aimed at determining which intervals would be considered appropriate (and feasible) for the human voice to sing, and for the human ear to hear. Some parts of this theory may be considered outdated by today's standards, or applicable in specific genres only (mostly classic). But before breaking the rules, it is useful to at least understand them.
Click to expand...

which summarizes most of the useful responses here.
 
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#52
A couple of people have mentioned "Over the Rainbow." There's a common improvisation/embellishment that illustrates well this music-theory concept. The original melody as written, leaps an octave and then descends to the 7th, 1 - 8 - 7: "Some - where, ov -" The melodic contour is a skip upward, followed by a step down, which is "textbook correct" melodic contour.

But sometimes singers add an extra note to the "where" syllable and go up after the octave leap, before coming down to the 7th: "Some - whe - EEERE! ov -" To my ear, when the melody goes up instead of down after the octave leap, it sounds brassy and dramatic. The original melody (as performed by Judy Garland) sounds more tasteful to my ear, moving down instead of up after the octave leap.

Hope that helps the discussion, to look at an actual famous melody. :)
 
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#53
As far as I understand, music theory is actually a collection of practices, developed over a period of several hundred years, that increase the probability that a composer comes up with something that many listeners will appreciate.

Studying theory allows the student to speed up her/his knowledge of those practices, so she/he doesn't waste a lot of time reinventing the wheel. Anything else depends on your ears.
 

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