Theory question

[moley]

Originally posted by Howard K
so something that's modal has to be diatonic?

Only to the extent that anything has be diatonic to that key in order to be said to be in that key.

That example could be said to be rooted on A, and conforms entirely to the Aeolian mode - so I'd say it's in A Aeolian.

But for a tune to be said to be in a particular mode, it doesn't have to be entirely diatonic to that mode. Likewise, for something to be in C Major - does it have to be all white notes? No.

It's a matter of the predominant sound/feel I guess. As an example (this one pops into my head because we kinda had this one drilled into us when I did A-Level Music) - Eleanor Rigby. Now, I'd say that's basically a dorian tune - E Dorian to be precise. The melody has that feel of a minor scale with major 6th & minor 7th. Now, there are C naturals in it - in fact there are C chords in it - but - I'd still say it's in E Dorian.

what if i wrote pice around the chords in a mode of melodic minor? would that not be modal also?

I'm used to "modal" referring to the modes of the major scale - but maybe I'm wrong. I don't see why a tune based on a mode of the melodic minor shouldn't be modal too?

 

[Andrew Jones]

I dont want to get to into this because this is ahuge topic but I d like to say that the function of a cord and the sound /texture of it is greatly effected by its place ment on the harmonic rhythm.

Harmonic rhythm; how the harmony fall in relation to rhythm


Take Bo's three examples

D-/G7/Cmaj/cmaj

Notice the dominant cord falls on the secound (weak) bar of a 4 bar phrase.

The same here

C maj/Aminor/D-/g7

Except its the forth bar

This is Bo's point gets a little shaky

Cmaj/Fmaj/g7

Play this note you can hear it as a 3 bar phrase
and it works strongly.

Try this

Cmaj/Fmaj/g7/g7

Now its a for bar pharse notice haow the dominant cord is a little bright sounding kinda suprising

Now try Cmaj/cmaj/fmaj/g7

This is the cadence that I think bo was getting at notice the placement of the Dominant cord and how normal this sounds.

in the second example the same cord has a different dominant role because of the harmonic rhythm!

take this into acount when analizing again you Have To LISTEN! How does it FEEL!

Aj

 

[Andrew Jones]

I guess what iM tring to say is that if you look at my 2 post I m saying three things


To write something in a Minor Key you have to establish the minor sound. In the war between major and minor major allways wins(so minor need a little push)

Harmonic Rhythm is very important to the functions of cords and why cadences work

Allways try to turn your brain off and listen! It helps when your feeling confused!

I think its these three things are the biggest reason for people having a hard time with Jazz Bo's Major or Minor examples

AJ

 

[Howard K]

Allways try to turn your brain off and listen! It helps when your feeling confused!

Good advice... tis much the same way I think of finding 'grooves'

I only count when I can't 'feel' it.