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Theory

santucci218

santucci218

Jan 26, 2007
5,570
16
37
Pittsburgh
www.myspace.com
#1
please guys, i need help. i understand why theory is necessary and stuff, i just don't know it. On top of that, i get frustrated when i try to read about it because its a lot to take in...I have been presented with the opportunity to start a Jazz Fusion kind of band with my friends and i really don't want to pass this up. It will really improve my playing I'm sure. I just need it in easier terms for me. like the circle of fifths, i don't understand it. sure i get that its used for making bass lines and stuff...but how?

Thank you guys, Paul.
 
#4
If theory is not making sense then time to get a teacher to help explain things in terms you will understand and pace your learning. Especially if you are going to try and play Fusion. Fusion is more than chops and hot riffs there is a lot of theory required to play and improvise. Fusion uses a lot of advanced chords that requires a keen knowledge of scales/modes and ability to analyze the chord progressions. Fusion is like the Bebop of the past, it is musicians music to challenge each other with.
 
#6
You'll be off to a good start if you learn where all the notes are on the fret board. Then when you do come to learn some basic theory it will make it a little easier. There are lots of on line lessons that give fretboard-note diagrams.
 
#7
Try Tonal Harmony by Kostka and Payne. There's also a workbook that goes with it. Used it for two years' worth of music theory in school, but you can go as far in the text as you need. You could probably find a used copy at your local college or university book store. Apart from that, yeah, find a teacher to clear things up.
 
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#8
It isn't as hard as you may think. Know your major and minor scales? The notes in the major scale are often numbered: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 (1). Modes are just the major scale starting on each note. So 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 (1), 9 (2) is how you'd play the mode starting on the second note of the major scale. Start learning your modes in C at first, (no sharps or flats, all natural notes).
I'm not sure how much sense that made, but it is a lot more straight forward that you may think. I'd learn: Major/minor scales, Modes, chromatic scale (all 12 notes, very useful to know) and take it from there.
Heres the book i learned from: Invalid Link Removed

Glenn Letsch (in the book) does a great job of explaining theory.
 
#11
santucci218 said:
thanks a lot guys. Yeah i know all the notes on the neck and stuff...and a few of the modes. sometimes it just confuses me of what notes i can and can not play when playing with a band. any advice on that?
Click to expand...

I always hate to use the term "right" and "wrong". Any note is possible (depending on the situation); however, some notes are more expected.

What style are you thinking about?
What's the chord progression?

99% of the time you won't have to apologize for playing the root.

Joe
 
#12
santucci218 said:
thanks a lot guys. Yeah i know all the notes on the neck and stuff...and a few of the modes. sometimes it just confuses me of what notes i can and can not play when playing with a band. any advice on that?
Click to expand...

One thing the sticks out to me about what you said, you know a few modes. Sounds like you learned some fingering patterns not what a mode is and where they come from. If you did you could figure out all the Major scale modes. Then the work after that is you with a recorder or looping pedal laying down a chord or chords and trying out scales. You need to discover on your own what the different notes of a scale or mode sound like. It is that process that not only teach notes to avoid on strong beats, but that process trains your ear to know what does the 6th degree of a scale sound like play against a certain chord. Sure you can find books and lesson that will say avoid this note when play against that chord. But it won't do you any good till you hear why. Plus more important ANY NOTE can work againist any chord IF you use the right articulation. How do you learn this, lots and lots of playing and experimenting. :ninja:

Find a good bass or improv teacher or book on improv. Then get something to record or play chords for you and then shed and shed and shed. There are no shortcuts, playing and experimenting is the answer. :bassist:
 
#13
OKStateBass66 said:
Try Tonal Harmony by Kostka and Payne. There's also a workbook that goes with it. Used it for two years' worth of music theory in school, but you can go as far in the text as you need. You could probably find a used copy at your local college or university book store. Apart from that, yeah, find a teacher to clear things up.
Click to expand...

This book is pretty decent, but is definitely not tailored for a jazz musician, as it is purely based on classical and chorale theory. It would be a good read, for sure, and he would learn a ton, but he needs to understand that isn't meant for a jazz musician.

Get a teacher, as soon as possible. A very good one.
 
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#14
well i know what a mode is. not the names of them though but i understand that each one is based off a new starting point in the same scale. instead of starting c major on c, start it on b or d or e...exc...also, chord progressions i just read a lot about off the internet. they dont seem as hard as i thought they were! it all seems a bit more easy to me!

BUT, can anyone show me a site, or personally show me a picture and explain the circle of 5ths? i can not make heads or tails of it sadly
 
#15
santucci218 said:
BUT, can anyone show me a site, or personally show me a picture and explain the circle of 5ths? i can not make heads or tails of it sadly
Click to expand...

Did you get an opportunity to check out http://www.musictheory.net?

It has interactive tools to help you understand all kinds of music theory concepts. Theory is a broad topic. I am a public school orchestra director. I have 6 years of college under my belt and I'm still learning new things. Most of my college study was based on classical theory, analysis, and composition. I learned a lot of the jazz theory on my own. There is a lot of overlap; however, jazz seems to play by its own set of "rules".

Joe
 
#17
santucci218 said:
BUT, can anyone show me a site, or personally show me a picture and explain the circle of 5ths? i can not make heads or tails of it sadly
Click to expand...

Real simple actually. You say you understand chord progressions so take a simple Blues progression in C, C is your I chord, F is your IV chord, and G is your V chord. So the turnaround of the Blues finishs by going from the G back to the C, or from the V chord back to the I chord.
That move from G chord resolving down to the C is the basis of the Circle of Fifths.

So G goes down to C, now think of the C being the V chord what would it resolve to??? Right F. C resolves down to F. Now you have to little pieces of the Circle of Fifths. G resolves down to C and C resolves down to F. I'll do one more and you can finish the circle yourself. Okay you are on the F chord, think of it as a V chord, where would it resolve to??? Yup Bb. If you were playing a Blues in Bb then on the turnaround you'd go up to F and resolve down to Bb. So now you have G->C->F->Bb. Now time to finish the Circle yourself. If you get stuck play a Blues and figure it out.
 
#18
santucci218 said:
thanks a lot Joe! are there any books you can insist i buy? i really want to learn these rules for jazz, as well as how you phrase chords and harmonics and all that goodness! please get back to me
Click to expand...

I would start simple and build your understanding on the basics. I would start with musictheory.net. It starts very basic and it gets fairly advanced. Have you gone through those tutorials yet?

I can't stress the basics enough. You can really confuse yourself when it comes to theory. One of the fist things you learn in theory books is to identify pitches on the grand staff. The next step is usually figuring out intervals; for example, perfect prime, minor 2nd, Major 2nd, minor 3rd, Major 3rd... Do you know these yet? An ear training lesson would be to identify those intervals by hearing them played together, ascending, and descending.

This would be a good place to start (IMO)

Joe
 
#20
Bassist4Life said:
http://www.musictheory.net

This is a great place to start. I've used this with 7th grade students with good results. You can do it.

Joe
Click to expand...

That website is pretty great. I've been looking for a way to really get some good practice in and this is one of the best methods I've found for myself so far.

Thanks a lot!

(now I can slack off in class... and still learn!)

EDIT: However, now I can't seem to access the site except for the main page and the note trainer. :-/
 

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