Thick yet flexible flats with a smooth tone and available as singles

[Boneless]

I'm fed up. I've tried quite a few flatwounds on my Guild (namely, LaBella Olinto flats, .43-.104 DTFs, medium scale DTFs, GHS .40-.95 medium scales, Galli flats, Fender flats, long scale TIs, Optima Chrome flats, Alice flats, Pyramid flats). The only strings I really liked were the extra light DTFs but the G and D strings buzzed within the tailpiece, with the buzz being picked up by the pickup (basically they sounded like a fretless bass ). A solution was found, a spacer behind the tailpiece. The bass sounds heavenly with those strings, but it was bass-shy and I need a bit more heft.

I've spent a shagload trying to find strings that work well on this bass, but either

- they sound floppy on the E string, with nasty overtones, like a detuned string (GHS, Fender, Optima, LaBella Olinto, Alice, Galli, with varying degrees of nastiness)
- they sound way too thumpy on the E string, with a response that is completely different to the rest of the strings (LaBella DTFs other than the extra light set, Pyramid, Thomann flats)

The best compromise so far are the LaBella Olinto flats (and, surprisingly, the Thomann flats), but they still don't sound nice and taut on the E string.
I am therefore thinking of going down the route of making my own set. Which manufacturers a) sell single flat strings and b) provide tension charts? So far I've found D'Addario (whose best compromise appears to be .045, .060, .080, .110 according to their tension chart) and possibly Rotosound.

 

[DCCat]

GHS sells a wide range of singles on their site and publishes tension numbers. I replaced the .060 D in their regular scale .045-.095 set with an .055 because the .060 was far too tense/stiff relative to the other strings. Made it significantly better. Unfortunately, they don't offer an .040 G, which would probably make it even better. Maybe you can put together a set that doesn't have what you view as a problematic E.

 

[Prodigus Filius]

What string brand and gauge is sitting on the Starfire I currently? Tune up the E string till it feels right. Note the pitch and match it with the closet ET pitch above E1. Adding .005” to the current gauge per semitone you tune up will provide you with a ball park figure for a gauge hunt for E. If the othe strings feel ok than look at comparable flatwound gauges in the brand that may have the E you seek. Bare in mind that neither Chromes or Roto jazz flats meet your ‘flexible’ criteria. And although ‘forgiving’ large gauge long scale flatwounds or rounds are not out of the question on medium winding length tailpiece to E post basses ( the Starfire I ships with long scale rounds I think), consideration should be given to not doing ao with a string like .110 long scale Roto jazz flat (37”/89.5cm winding length), that is stiff and not fkexible enough for a considerable portion of non tapered string to wrap on the E post

 

[Prodigus Filius]

Perhaps HaphAsSard might know of tension data for the round core Dogal flatwounds Dogal 32JC106C Carbon Steel flat wound 045‐105 4string Medium scale Bass Electric 4 string
Some singles are listed on the LoTS site also. And looking into the stranded core JH flats also worth a look perhaps.Although only 34/35”scale sets me thinks

 

[Deleted member 271037]

It's a shame you didn't like the Pyramids, because the selection of singles is the best you will ever find for flatwounds. They're available from .020 to .120 for short scale (and up to .126 for long scale) in increments of .005.

As for the reason you didn't like the Pyramids (and the DTFs), the tonal differences between the E-string and the rest will balance out considerably with use. The higher strings will need more time to mellow out. Once the strings are broken in they will have a reasonably balanced tone across the strings. This may take months of regular playing though, and based on the number of strings you've gone through I have a feeling you won't have the patience for that. And of course, this process won't make the E-string less thumpy. The other strings will mellow out and get tonally closer to the E-string, so although the set will sound more balanced, it's probably not what you're looking for.

You don't mention which type of Guild bass you own, so the following is based on the assumption that we're talking about a short scale Starfire:

You might want to check out D'Addario Chromes. I absolutely detest these strings on long scale basses. They are too stiff and lacking in articulation for my taste. On short scale basses this stiffness can be an advantage. D'A Chromes feel MUCH nicer on short scale basses IMO, with a more supple feel and much better articulation than on long scale basses. The tone is still a bit bright for my taste, but it does mellow out over time. Just be aware that you will probably need a MEDIUM scale set of D'A Chromes for a Starfire.

But I have to be honest... When you've gone through THAT many types of flats and not found a single set that you like it's starting to look like flats aren't the right choice for you. At least not on this bass. That's a LOT of time and money you've wasted already. At some point you should probably ask yourself whether you really want to go further down this rabbit hole.

 

[Boneless]

It's a shame you didn't like the Pyramids, because the selection of singles is the best you will ever find for flatwounds. They're available from .020 to .120 for short scale (and up to .126 for long scale) in increments of .005.

As for the reason you didn't like the Pyramids (and the DTFs), the tonal differences between the E-string and the rest will balance out considerably with use. The higher strings will need more time to mellow out. Once the strings are broken in they will have a reasonably balanced tone across the strings. This may take months of regular playing though, and based on the number of strings you've gone through I have a feeling you won't have the patience for that. And of course, this process won't make the E-string less thumpy. The other strings will mellow out and get tonally closer to the E-string, so although the set will sound more balanced, it's probably not what you're looking for.

You don't mention which type of Guild bass you own, so the following is based on the assumption that we're talking about a short scale Starfire:

You might want to check out D'Addario Chromes. I absolutely detest these strings on long scale basses. They are too stiff and lacking in articulation for my taste. On short scale basses this stiffness can be an advantage. D'A Chromes feel MUCH nicer on short scale basses IMO, with a more supple feel and much better articulation than on long scale basses. The tone is still a bit bright for my taste, but it does mellow out over time. Just be aware that you will probably need a MEDIUM scale set of D'A Chromes for a Starfire.

But I have to be honest... When you've gone through THAT many types of flats and not found a single set that you like it's starting to look like flats aren't the right choice for you. At least not on this bass. That's a LOT of time and money you've wasted already. At some point you should probably ask yourself whether you really want to go further down this rabbit hole.

I did keep the Pyramids for a few months. They did mellow out, but the E string lacks too much sustain compared to the other strings. Maybe getting a .105-.110 string in hex core would make things better. It's a thing I noticed with LaBella DTFs other than the extralight gauge too (whereas the extralight DTFs had the perfect balance). I know I want flats because I have actually had flats that worked well on this bass (the aforementioned extralight DTFs, Ernie Ball Cobalt flats) but the former were too lean, the latter were too bright. All the other flats I tried did get better if I tuned the E string one tone sharp (so getting where the tension should be), so it's not a question of tone but of gauge/tension really.

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I did keep the Pyramids for a few months. They did mellow out, but the E string lacks too much sustain compared to the other strings. Maybe getting a .105-.110 string in hex core would make things better. It's a thing I noticed with LaBella DTFs other than the extralight gauge too (whereas the extralight DTFs had the perfect balance). I know I want flats because I have actually had flats that worked well on this bass (the aforementioned extralight DTFs, Ernie Ball Cobalt flats) but the former were too lean, the latter were too bright. All the other flats I tried did get better if I tuned the E string one tone sharp (so getting where the tension should be), so it's not a question of tone but of gauge/tension really.

I understand. The problem with flats is unfortunately that heavier gauge E-strings generally means a more thumpy/undefined tone, which is exactly what you don't want.

The tonally most balanced flatwound sets are typically lighter gauges, which is also exactly what you don't want.

So yeah, I totally understand your problem.

My recommendation is still the D'A Chromes. They work surprisingly well for me on short scale basses, even though I hate them on long scale basses. Whether YOU like the tone/feel is a different matter of course, but based on what you're said I think they might be worth considering.

Now, for MY taste on a Guild Starfire... I use the standard Pyramid Gold short scale set on my Starfire: 040 - 055 - 070 - 100. Tension wise this is one of the best balanced set of bass strings I've ever played. Tonally... Sure, the E-string is slightly thumpier than the rest but it's not really THAT bad (when broken-in). Certainly nowhere near as bad as the Pyramid LONG scale sets with the heavier gauge almost "dead" sounding E-string. Pyramid Gold LONG scale sets are HORRIBLY unbalanced, both tonally and tension wise. So for me the Pyramids Gold are the opposite of the D'A Chromes: I absolutely LOVE the short scale Pyramid Golds but I hate the long scale sets.

 

[GrowlerBox]

So for me the Pyramids Gold are the opposite of the D'A Chromes: I absolutely LOVE the short scale Pyramid Golds but I hate the long scale sets.

Hang on; doesn’t that make Pyramids the same as the D’Addarios (for you)?

 

[Deleted member 271037]

I did keep the Pyramids for a few months. They did mellow out, but the E string lacks too much sustain compared to the other strings. Maybe getting a .105-.110 string in hex core would make things better. It's a thing I noticed with LaBella DTFs other than the extralight gauge too (whereas the extralight DTFs had the perfect balance). I know I want flats because I have actually had flats that worked well on this bass (the aforementioned extralight DTFs, Ernie Ball Cobalt flats) but the former were too lean, the latter were too bright. All the other flats I tried did get better if I tuned the E string one tone sharp (so getting where the tension should be), so it's not a question of tone but of gauge/tension really.

I understand. The problem with flats is unfortunately that heavier gauge E-strings generally means a more thumpy/undefined tone, which is exactly what you don't want.

The tonally most balanced flatwound sets are typically lighter gauges, which is also exactly what you don't want.

So yeah, I totally understand your problem.

My recommendation is still the D'A Chromes. They work surprisingly well for me on short scale basses, even though I hate them on long scale basses. Whether YOU like the tone/feel is a different matter of course, but based on what you're said I think they might be worth considering.

Now, for MY taste on a Guild Starfire... I use the standard Pyramid Gold short scale set on my Starfire: 040 - 055 - 070 - 100. Tension wise this is one of the most balanced set of bass strings I've ever played. Tonally... Sure, the E-string is slightly thumpier than the rest but it's not really THAT bad (when broken-in). Certainly nowhere near as bad as the Pyramid LONG scale sets with the heavier gauge almost "dead" sounding E-string. Pyramid Gold LONG scale sets are HORRIBLY unbalanced, both tonally and tension wise. So for me the Pyramids Gold are the opposite of the D'A Chromes: I absolutely LOVE the short scale Pyramid Golds but I hate the long scale sets.

Hang on; doesn’t that make Pyramids the same as the D’Addarios (for you)?

You're absolutely right! I don't know what I was thinking. Thanks for correcting me, and sorry for the confusion!

So, what I meant to say was that I don't like the long scale sets of either Pyramid Golds or D'Addario Chromes. I find the Pyramids too unbalanced across the strings (especially the E-string) and the Chromes too stiff/inarticulate. But I like the short scale sets of both, especially the Golds.

I must have been subconsciously thinking about the TI Jazz Flats, where I love the long scale set but absolutely hate the standard short scale set with the HUGE drop in tension from the stiff E-string to the floppy A-string. That set is more or less unplayable IMO.

The TIJF "Höfner" short scale set (which can be harder to find) has a much lighter gauge E-string and is much better balanced, although extremely floppy overall. Absolutely gorgeous tone though, IF you can handle the ultra-low tension. Definitely not for everyone. I keep then installed on an old Italian hollowbody for studio use only, and I need to raise the action slightly higher than I normally do to make them work for my playing style.