Thoughts on Roger Waters as a Bass Player

[tbz]

Syd had any input

Kinda doubt it. Everything I've read indicates that Syd was in pretty poor condition by the time they recorded the first album. Possible he made suggestions while they were arranging and jamming out the song initially, but everything I've read indicates he wouldn't have had much input.

 

[Pow R Tosh]

Roger Waters is insignificant as a bassist, and a human flea, still trying to suck blood from a band he quit in 1984.

 

[hieronymous]

Already looked at this thread this morning, but this time I miss read it as "Thoughts on Mr. Roper as a Bass Player" - must've been that "favorite TV theme songs" thread above it!

 

[Pow R Tosh]

Kinda doubt it. Everything I've read indicates that Syd was in pretty poor condition by the time they recorded the first album. Possible he made suggestions while they were arranging and jamming out the song initially, but everything I've read indicates he wouldn't have had much input.

Guess we'll never know. I know (or at least have read etc) things were disintegrating for him around this time, that he was difficult etc, especially for Norman Smith. I like to think he was together enough to produce the record at this point though. That he was king arranger, composer etc for his vision / art. I can imagine him showing Waters what he wanted on certain tracks, maybe on the far out tracks it was more 'free for all' improv. Dunno. I do like Waters improv on Interstellar Overdrive, awesome

 

[BAG]

Like others have said, he get's the job done and whether it was Gilmour or him who played on the recordings, the bass serves the song very well in almost every single song.

This below is a perfect example..... how many bass players would be content, on what is a two chord song, to just play the root note for the entire song? One root note for 8 bars and then the other one for 4 bars, back to the original root note for 4 bars and repeat for the entire song.

A thought

 

[Hot Rats]

Roger Waters is insignificant as a bassist and a human flea, still trying to suck blood from a band he quit in 1984.

Alright, I knew this would evolve into a lame bash on Roger Waters thread, thanks for getting things really going.

 

[tbz]

Guess we'll never know. I know (or at least have read etc) things were disintegrating for him around this time, that he was difficult etc, especially for Norman Smith. I like to think he was together enough to produce the record at this point though. That he was king arranger, composer etc for his vision / art. I can imagine him showing Waters what he wanted on certain tracks, maybe on the far out tracks it was more 'free for all' improv. Dunno. I do like Waters improv on Interstellar Overdrive, awesome

I think reading a few bios will paint a clear picture. I've read 3-4 over the years and have confidence in my view of how dysfunctional Syd was overall.

 

[tbz]

Alright, I knew this would evolve into a lame bash on Roger Waters thread, thanks for getting things really going.

Happens anytime you mention Floyd.

Floyd's label spent a ton of money bashing Roger, in the process of legitimizing the post-Waters Floyd. So the average person doesn't really understand the true dynamic at play.

Hence absurdly under informed takes, like that one. How does one suck the blood from their former band, by having a solo career that doesn't involve the former band? Where you play their music minimally for the first 10 years or so.

Just doesn't make sense unless you've been brainwashed by the corporate narrative.

 

[Pow R Tosh]

Yeah I've read them all too. Quite depressing. I think it's testament to Waters drive that he kept it all going. Saucerful is such a mish mash yet brilliant album. The mono vinyl is great. I hope they do a CD release of it soon. Let ther be more light has a pretty cool bass line that I like to smash out occasionally

 

[nellie48]

Actually, more specifically, I do wonder if he generated the baselines himself or if Gilmour (or even Barrett) gave him any pointers early on. Been listening to Animals remaster lately and I've just re-appraised his playing.

I was told years ago that Gilmour played those bass parts on the album Animals.

 

[Pow R Tosh]

Happens anytime you mention Floyd.

Floyd's label spent a ton of money bashing Roger, in the process of legitimizing the post-Waters Floyd. So the average person doesn't really understand the true dynamic at play.

Hence absurdly under informed takes, like that one. How does one suck the blood from their former band, by having a solo career that doesn't involve the former band? Where you play their music minimally for the first 10 years or so.

Just doesn't make sense unless you've been brainwashed by the corporate narrative.

 

[Pow R Tosh]

Yeah, parking the Waters hate (which I do understand), I think that there's 3 stages. Early Barrett visionary stage where Waters plays really instinctively sometimes with aggression and exciting, bleeding into the 'transitional' Saucerful - Ummagumma- Atom Heart , Then the much more conceptual Meddle - Wall (not even gonna mention Final Cut sorry) where quite possibly Gilmour has a hand far bigger than I previously knew. I'm not Waters biggest fan either but know that there's always two sides of the coin. I wonder if he ever had a bass player that he idolised or got inspiration from? Probably just did his own thing I reckon

 

[BAG]

I think the Floyd situation is kinda complex.

Gilmour was hired as a sideman.

Then he later rebelled and kicked the main songwriter in the band out. Over a decade long Cold War.

That, by modern standards, is super sketchy. He at any time could have pulled his head out of his ass, and just gotten along with the band leader. Which is expected when you're brought into a successful working band, as a nobody.

But for some reason people generally don't frame it as "former side man, who then was allowed to have an oversized creative presence in the band, rebelled." Probably because Gilmour ended up with the band name. So all of the label's advertising money went to supporting his narrative.

From the side of Waters, I can see that being very hard to swallow. "We hired you as a replacement and you decided to take the whole thing over. Then spent decades bashing me via the media." Hard to move past that.

That's an interesting take on the situation. Not exactly what I have gotten out of the biography's I've read.

In his eyes it was "they didn't show up prepared with song ideas and someone had to take charge."

The impression I got, particularly from Nick Mason's auto-biography, was that after "The Wall", Waters came in with "The Final Cut" and basically said that was the album they were going to record and the others could pretty much like it or leave.

Yet despite having played with Barrett, Gilmour happily said "yes" when he was asked to replace him.

That frankly doesn't paint him in a positive light, in my opinion.

Gilmour was asked to join the band before Barrett was ousted. Nick Mason said that they were getting sick of Sid's erratic behaviour and they basically "deliberately forgot" to pick him up for a gig. He goes on to say that if they were older they'd have probably dealt with it in a better way but at the time they were young and just didn't want to deal with Sid's issues. Gilmour wasn't brought in to actually replace Sid, he was brought in originally to add another guitar and, to a certain extent, cover up for Sid's increasingly uncertain playing.

Do you feel the same way about Roger basically deciding he was the band leader after Sid left?

It's probably hard to know for sure, but if Gilmour was never in Pink Floyd, I think they'd have been a footnote in history at best.

It's impossible to know, but Gilmour's playing and note choice are a BIG part of why the post-Sid Pink Floyd were so good...... along with Water's song writing.

I think reading a few bios will paint a clear picture. I've read 3-4 over the years and have confidence in my view of how dysfunctional Syd was overall.

I've also read just about anything Floyd that I can get my hands on with Nick Mason's auto-biography probably being one of the best due to the fact that he lived the whole experience from within.
I think my favorourite quote from Mason was about the ousting of Roger. By the time they did "The Final Cut" Roger was being more demanding and controlling to the point that others were really getting sick of him.
Nick says "Roger told the rest of the band that nobody in Pink Floyd is irreplaceable and he was right"

 

[SulzerType2]

Roger was an inventive bassist in 1967 and 1968. I see him as a sort of spirited sophomore McCartney who rattled up and down the neck a bit too much but came up with interesting stuff.

As he grew as a songwriter he clearly lost all interest in playing bass parts beyond the bare essentials of plodding octaves and sparse fills.

 

[tbz]

Do you feel the same way about Roger basically deciding he was the band leader after Sid left?

Everything I've read indicates that he had to because everyone else was kinda lazy.

but Gilmour's playing and note choice are a BIG part of why the post-Sid Pink Floyd were so good

I feel like the myth of guitarists being unique or irreplaceable is an unfortunate one. Again, the aforementioned Mr Barre would have been a great other option. His playing within the context of Tull is amazing.

Nick Mason's auto-biography probably being one of the best due

I really would take any obviously biased sources like that with all of the grains of salt possible.

Especially in this case.

 

[Pow R Tosh]

Roger was an inventive bassist in 1967 and 1968. I see him as a sort of spirited sophomore McCartney who rattled up and down the neck a bit too much but came up with interesting stuff.

As he grew as a songwriter he clearly lost all interest in playing bass parts beyond the bare essentials of plodding octaves and sparse fills.

Yeah I liked that early inventiveness too, I think he followed Barrett's unpredictability really hand in glove.

 

[tbz]

Not exactly what I have gotten out of the biography's I've read.

It's what happened. He was hired as a fill-in/sideman. He was given freedom to do what he wanted. He then engaged in a decade long Cold War with the other major songwriter in the band.

By modern professional standards he wouldn't be viewed positively. That's not what one does in 2022, when handed a solid gig.

But those were different times, and guitarists got away with a lot of stuff then.

 

[Pow R Tosh]

Everything I've read indicates that he had to because everyone else was kinda lazy.



I feel like the myth of guitarists being unique or irreplaceable is an unfortunate one. Again, the aforementioned Mr Barre would have been a great other option. His playing within the context of Tull is amazing.



I really would take any obviously biased sources like that with all of the grains of salt possible.

Especially in this case.

I stupidly passed up the opportunity to buy Barre's Gibson Black Beauty from Mansons in Exeter quite a few years back - £15,000. That'd be worth so much more now

 

[Hot Rats]

Here is a version of Pigs on the Wing with Snowy White on the solo. It's just cool is all.

 

[Les Fret]

My view is that Gilmour and Waters needed each other. They made their best music with each other. And they never reached that same height and level of creativity without each other. Waters solo projects are ok, but not super great. The Final Cut is the worst Floyd album. Floyd's Momentary Lapse is a good album but the Division Bell not so much (for me anyway). The Saucer project of Mason is nothing more than a tribute band. Not bad at all but not something I really have to see.