Double Bass Three Walter Woods Ultras on ebay

[Reefer]

(head hung down) I believe it is the MI 225 that he can't
do the major fixes on. You should call him just to make sure.
I'm an admitted idiot and I could be wrong. I hope I'm wrong.

I had heard that for a while myself, but I asked Walter about a year ago and he said he was able to do any repair on his amps.

 

[B String]

I had heard that for a while myself, but I asked Walter about a year ago and he said he was able to do any repair on his amps.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME???????? ARE YOU KIDDING ME???????

I talked with Walter before I sold my MI 225. He couldn't
have been clearer. He told me that he used different power
supply parts in that amp that were not being made anymore,
and that after much experimenting with replacement parts,
there just wasn't anything he could use in the amp.
If you are correct, I sold a tool that I dearly loved. Are you
sure he said he could fix the MI 225??

 

[Uncletoad]

Are you
sure he said he could fix the MI 225??

Do you really want an answer to that?

Here's a better one. You don't have one to fix so it doesn't matter.

His stuff is going to be obsolete before I'm buried. There is a bunch of alternatives to his stuff these days that are excellent gigging amps for DB. I bet there'll be a bunch more in the next 10 years. That amp will be a historical artifact before you know it.

You sold it while it was still working and got decent dough for it.

That's a good deal in my book.

 

[B String]

Do you really want an answer to that?

Here's a better one. You don't have one to fix so it doesn't matter.

His stuff is going to be obsolete before I'm buried. There is a bunch of alternatives to his stuff these days that are excellent gigging amps for DB. I bet there'll be a bunch more in the next 10 years. That amp will be a historical artifact before you know it.

You sold it while it was still working and got decent dough for it.

That's a good deal in my book.

OK.. I'm breathing.... I'm breathing.... breathing.......whooooa
Thanks for talking me down. I almost commited amp-i-cide.
You're right, I'll be just fine without that damn amp. I hated
that amp! It sucked and I hope I never see it again. (sniff)

 

[Uncletoad]

OK.. I'm breathing.... I'm breathing.... breathing.......whooooa
Thanks for talking me down. I almost commited amp-i-cide.
You're right, I'll be just fine without that damn amp. I hated
that amp! It sucked and I hope I never see it again. (sniff)

That's what I'm sayin.

It was a total POS. It would have left you hanging on the gig anyhow. Died right in the middle of the best solo of your life in front of _________ . You'd send it back to Walter and he'd pass away while working on it and you'd never have gotten anything for it.

 

[B String]

That's what I'm sayin.

It was a total POS. It would have left you hanging on the gig anyhow. Died right in the middle of the best solo of your life in front of _________ . You'd send it back to Walter and he'd pass away while working on it and you'd never have gotten anything for it.

I am SO lucky to have gotten rid of that "THING"

I feel much better. Now I'm a "Woods Survivor", and I will
have a life after Walter Woods. Thank you.

 

[Uncletoad]

I bet WW is going to be in demand for a while. I'd love to hear from guys who really know the electronics end of things.

Of course all that you say is right. I'm just riffing for poor freaked out Bstring.

Having said that, I've got a WWU and Focus 2 R III. The Focus is doing all the gigs even though I kinda prefer the way the WW sounds. Mostly cause it's a PITA to work with the Woods compared to the close and play Focus thing.

His stuff is most likely going to continue to have a fan base for a long time. Like most vintage stuff thought it will eventually become of to much value to be of use to the regular working stiff. They are already selling for obscene money on Ebay. They day he dies they'll go through the roof.

 

[fdeck]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, or back me up if I'm right:

I'm no electronics expert, but I assume that much of what makes WW amps sound the way they do is the transformers and the quality of the supporting components. Modern amp makers probably use chips instead of transformers, at least in the preamp stage.

These differences result in amps like WW having more of the pleasing type of distortion, like we associate with vinyl records as opposed to a more accurate, (though sometimes too clean and clinical) CD sound.

So, other amp makers can make an amp the size of a WW that is powerful and sounds pretty good. Is it going to sound like a WW? Not unless it's filled with the same amount of iron.

Notice I did not say "as good as a WW". That's subjective.

I'm into recording. Microphone preamps are available with tubes, transformers, or chips. They all sound very different. A chip-based pre sounds nothing like a good tube or transformer-coupled pre. Chip-based pres are cheaper. Good transformer-coupled pres are not.

Maybe I'm way off here, but it seems to me that the only way for a more modern-design amp to sound like a WW is to have some computer modeling of it programed on a chip. Well, the recording industry is way bigger than the bass community and the high-end gear still uses big chunks of iron in the signal path just like WW. If there was a better way, you'd see it there first since the market is bigger, I believe.

There are a few mic pres with chips that get respect. Sytek and DAV to name a couple. They sound good (I own a Sytek) and they get used on big records, but only when someone wants that particular sound, and not nearly as often as the big-iron preamps (Neve, API, etc.).

I bet WW is going to be in demand for a while. I'd love to hear from guys who really know the electronics end of things.

Is that really true, that the WW amps are transformer coupled in the preamp? Also, I have seen pics of the WW innards, and he does use chips.

I would never try to second guess a legendary amp maker, but if it was me, I would make sure that the "sound" is in the preamp, with a basically clean & flat power amp. There are valid design reasons for this. And if it is true, then one of the beloved early WW amps -- if it ever became unrepairable -- would be worth preserving the preamp as an outboard unit and driving a contemporary power amp. Of course if I am wrong, then what I am saying is bunk. But I would never let a legendary amp go to the dust bin without hanging onto the preamp.

In a Class-D power amp, the chunks of iron are just how the amp works.

My guess is that the WW sound is mainly a combination of WW putting a lot of thought into how he wants his amps to sound, talking to a lot of bassists and listening to their comments, and then implementing it with careful but straightforward engineering. The use of selected or matched components was a common practice at one time, when there was more variation among parts.

Again, these are all just my own guesses. Even in this day of lightweight amps, WW still deserves recognition for developing and promoting the concept long before it was viable for mainstream amp makers.

 

[larry]

Is that really true, that the WW amps are transformer coupled in the preamp? Also, I have seen pics of the WW innards, and he does use chips.

I did say it was my assumption, maybe I'm way off. I don't know much about electronics; I was hoping to kick start a conversation about the physical differences between WW and his nearest competitors. Something tangible that justifies the price - beyond the mojo factor, as well as the likelyhood of cheaper technology being able to reproduce said mojo.

 

[robgrow]

The earliest Walter Woods amps used a conventional linear class AB power amp section with all discrete components. The preamp sections used discrete FET and bipolar transistors in a relatively high gain class A configuration, which lent a warm, "tube-like" sound. Later amps use class D power amps and monolithic IC opamp-based preamps. To the best of my knowledge, WW amps have never used transformers of any kind in the signal path.

 

[larry]

The earliest Walter Woods amps used a conventional linear class AB power amp section with all discrete components. The preamp sections used discrete FET and bipolar transistors in a relatively high gain class A configuration, which lent a warm, "tube-like" sound. Later amps use class D power amps and monolithic IC opamp-based preamps. To the best of my knowledge, WW amps have never used transformers of any kind in the signal path.

That's what I'm looking for. I've played a couple of WW amps, but not enough to know if the older ones sound different from the new ones. Anyone know?

 

[robgrow]

...I've played a couple of WW amps, but not enough to know if the older ones sound different from the new ones. Anyone know?

As mentioned in my previous post, the earliest and current versions of Walter Woods amps use different circuit topologies, so they do indeed sound different. However keep in mind that many people think the sound of the current Electracoustic amps (mid 90's to present) has changed over time.

I'm really going out on a limb here because Walter Woods amps defy being put in nice neat categories, but there are basically four eras of these amps:

The original Walter Woods Mini Amp (aka the "Ice Cream Sandwich" because of its appearance). Model number MI-100-4. Single channel only. Made roughly 1970 to mid 70's. Fairly rare, but still turn up for sale occasionally.

The MI-xxx-8 series with red anodized aluminum control panels. Made mid 70's to mid 80's. This is the classic Walter Woods amp that most people have seen. FET-based class A preamp. Very warm and musical sounding, much like a tube amp. The 100 watt, red pilot light MI-100-8 is probably most common. Also available with higher power options. Details of power amp sections varied from early to late amps. Single, dual, and four-channel versions.

The MI series with the same leather-grained vinyl material on the control panel as on the top and bottom covers. Same anodized aluminum knobs as the previous models. Sometimes referred to as a "Sweeper" because of the sweepable EQ. Made late 80's to mid 90's. IC opamp based preamps. Several options were available in this era, including stereo. First amps to carry the current WW logo.

The Electracoustic series - mid 90's to present. IC opamp based preamps. During this time, four mono power output levels were available (red light M100, green light M300, amber light M500 and blue light M800) as well as low and high power stereo models.

If anyone has anything to add or any corrections to this, please feel free to let me know. I am by no means an expert on Walter Woods amps -- just been around a long time.

 

[larry]

I never would have guessed he was using IC's.

Alirght, well I'm going to delete my earlier post. I don't want someone to misread it and get bad info.

 

[Ric Vice]

The MI-xxx-8 series with red anodized aluminum control panels. Made mid 70's to mid 80's. This is the classic Walter Woods amp that most people have seen. FET-based class A preamp. Very warm and musical sounding, much like a tube amp. The 100 watt, red pilot light MI-100-8 is probably most common. Single and dual-channel versions. Details of power amp sections varied from early to late amps.

The only thing that I would add to Rob's post, is that the MI-xx-8 series was offered in a 400 watt and 600 watt version for a very short time. The MI-400-8 had the amber power light and the MI-600-8 used the blue power light. The weight also changed as the power increased. The 400 is 10 lbs and the I believe the 600 was 12. I've never actually seen a 600, although I know that Rufus Reid had one to drive two Bose 802's. Walter Couldn't produce this model for vary long because he evidently couldn't get the switching power supplies he needed to build them. These amps are kind of the best of both worlds if you like the class A preamp that Rob described. Great sound more power.

Ric

 

[robgrow]

The only thing that I would add to Rob's post, is that the MI-xx-8 series was offered in a 400 watt and 600 watt version for a very short time. The MI-400-8 had the amber power light and the MI-600-8 used the blue power light. The weight also changed as the power increased. The 400 is 10 lbs and the I believe the 600 was 12. I've never actually seen a 600, although I know that Rufus Reid had one to drive two Bose 802's. Walter Couldn't produce this model for vary long because he evidently couldn't get the switching power supplies he needed to build them. These amps are kind of the best of both worlds if you like the class A preamp that Rob described. Great sound more power.

Ric

Hi Ric, Is this the series with the red anodized aluminum control panels that you are talking about? (sounds ideal!) I know the later pre-Electracoustic series had higher power options.

BTW anybody else see the WW "Ice Cream Sandwich" currently on eBay? Link Removed

 

[Ric Vice]

Hi Ric, Is this the series with the red anodized aluminum control panels that you are talking about? (sounds ideal!) I know the later pre-Electracoustic series had higher power options.

Rob,
They are one and the same. As far as I know the "pre-Electroacoustic
amplifiers were only available with 100 watt, 200 watt stereo, and 325 watt power amp sections. Walter also re-designed the preamp section to give it a three band parametric eq. Some folks call that amplifier the sweeper. This is a picture of the 200 watt Stereo Version.

 

[Mario Lewis]

I don't mean to come across as morbid or cruel, but I repeatedly hear "once walter retires or gets out of the business" and the ghastly "once walter dies..." lines more frequently than not...

Is Mr. Woods close to or considering retirement? And (gulp) he's not ill or anything, is he? We will ALL expire one day...and there are some of us that have more days behind us than in front of us... but is that kind of talk validated?

 

[Ric Vice]

I don't mean to come across as morbid or cruel, but I repeatedly hear "once walter retires or gets out of the business" and the ghastly "once walter dies..." lines more frequently than not...

Is Mr. Woods close to or considering retirement? And (gulp) he's not ill or anything, is he? We will ALL expire one day...and there are some of us that have more days behind us than in front of us... but is that kind of talk validated?

Mario,
As far as any of us know Walter is still doing well.

 

[Bishbass]

I just talked to him last week, same great guy as always.

 

[Ric Vice]

I just talked to him last week, same great guy as always.

It's always good to hear about Walter since most of us don't usually contact him unless we need a new amp or service. My guess is that when Walter wishes to retire he will do so and the amps will have a following just like the old McIntosh Stereo Amplifiers do. There will be a great demand for someone that can service these amplifiers for a long time. Walter could probably stop building amps and still be very busy just repairing them. His stuff is very reliable but even a Walter Woods has to have a new power cord now and then.