JAUQO III-X
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Thunderfunk 750a vs Walkabout vs DB750
- Thread starter JPMcGuire
- Start date
svtb15
Inactive
- Mar 22, 2004
- 13,004
- 4,741
- Disclosures
- I play it all. Whatever works for the gig. Q+
yeah .. a few posts down from that post you made says that he opened up the limiter more to give it more power... hey whatever... interesting thread and a good sounding amp.
But at the time the TF site said it was 900 at 2 ohms too... So i just dont know .. maybe you were right... or was it a typo.. i dont know.... great amp anyway...
But at the time the TF site said it was 900 at 2 ohms too... So i just dont know .. maybe you were right... or was it a typo.. i dont know.... great amp anyway...
JAUQO III-X
Inactive
This has been a good read... Thanks for the great reviews!
Played a TFB-550a for through a 212 for about a year.. Very punchy, fast sounding amp. I currently use a walkabout as my main amp but it's just not loud enough on my loudest gigs with 2 x rs210's. Best gigging tone I've ever had for sure.
I recently purchased a Streamliner 600 (paired with an Empress para eq pedal) to use as my main amp for a while... I have not gigged with it yet but have had a few loud rehersals with it. It has a unique sound and feel that I'm getting used to, has fantastic features and is Much louder than the WA.
Your review has me thinking I should put the LM tube on my radar if the SL 600 doesn't make the cut! The most important thing for me is to retain that vintage, organic, tube tone that have nice and punchy, gritty 3d sounding mids when you dig in playing fingerstyle. Basically - its tone that's ALL Walkabout
Maybe I should just consider getting an LM tube anyways so I can do a solid A/B of those 3 heads paired my my TC cabs. I might like the LM much better than the SL if I'm going for WA tone.
Very tempted.
Played a TFB-550a for through a 212 for about a year.. Very punchy, fast sounding amp. I currently use a walkabout as my main amp but it's just not loud enough on my loudest gigs with 2 x rs210's. Best gigging tone I've ever had for sure.
I recently purchased a Streamliner 600 (paired with an Empress para eq pedal) to use as my main amp for a while... I have not gigged with it yet but have had a few loud rehersals with it. It has a unique sound and feel that I'm getting used to, has fantastic features and is Much louder than the WA.
Your review has me thinking I should put the LM tube on my radar if the SL 600 doesn't make the cut! The most important thing for me is to retain that vintage, organic, tube tone that have nice and punchy, gritty 3d sounding mids when you dig in playing fingerstyle. Basically - its tone that's ALL Walkabout
Maybe I should just consider getting an LM tube anyways so I can do a solid A/B of those 3 heads paired my my TC cabs. I might like the LM much better than the SL if I'm going for WA tone.Very tempted.
Huge svt and walkabout tone fan here. Also an aggi db359 tone fan (but not a fan of lugging and lack of vol). The LM Tube I would place in the same tonal family as a walkabout but with more headroom and a slight lean toward clean tube tone. The tube in the lm only has a slight affect. Definitely not in the same tonal family as Genz shuttles, gk.
I tried the Genz streamliner 900 at the music store with a variety of cabs and basses. Couldn't bond. Seemed to try an attempt at being in the db750 tonal vein but without the needed organic complexity and immediate punch of he DB.
This last batch of test subjects for me is after trying about 30 heads over the years. I feel that even with money not being an object, these 4 heads are the four finalists for the ultimate gigging amp for me. It's surprising that cost of head does not necessarily correlate IMO with good tone and features.
I notice a lot of us, including myself are intrigued by the latest offerings. Good tone is good tone IMO even if it was a TB darling 4 or 10 years ago!
I agree with post that a walkabout through right cab has one of the best live tones in history. Will defiantly become a classic.
I tried the Genz streamliner 900 at the music store with a variety of cabs and basses. Couldn't bond. Seemed to try an attempt at being in the db750 tonal vein but without the needed organic complexity and immediate punch of he DB.
This last batch of test subjects for me is after trying about 30 heads over the years. I feel that even with money not being an object, these 4 heads are the four finalists for the ultimate gigging amp for me. It's surprising that cost of head does not necessarily correlate IMO with good tone and features.
I notice a lot of us, including myself are intrigued by the latest offerings. Good tone is good tone IMO even if it was a TB darling 4 or 10 years ago!
I agree with post that a walkabout through right cab has one of the best live tones in history. Will defiantly become a classic.
Strange here. I pretty much disagree. The tone stack of the TH500 is quite a bit more complex than either the LM or the DB750, and the interactivity of the gain, drive and semi-parametric midrange is really something. I got very, very, very close to the DB750 tone, and on the gig, it seems even better (MUCH better midrange control) Different than the LM though, and I love both (have done a zillion gigs with both). Just like with the Streamliner, you need to work with it a bit.
+1 though that the clean, wide open, virtually flat on the scope tone of the LMII, the LMIII and the LMTube (all sound virtually identical) is really something, and quite a different thing from all these other heads. The LMII was a category changer when it came out 6 years ago or so.
Anyway, all good stuff. Wish you could get the TH500 on the gig. All these heads are very good mix and matches with the HS410 cab, which tightens the bloomy low end of heads like the DB750 and Streamliner automatically, and brings out all the mid complexity of heads like the Thunderfunk. Really nice cab for those who dig heads like the Walkabout, Streamliner, and DB750.
The LM heads sound great through every cab I've ever tried them with. The DB750, the Streamliner, not so much.
This has been a good read... Thanks for the great reviews!
Played a TFB-550a for through a 212 for about a year.. Very punchy, fast sounding amp. I currently use a walkabout as my main amp but it's just not loud enough on my loudest gigs with 2 x rs210's. Best gigging tone I've ever had for sure.
I recently purchased a Streamliner 600 (paired with an Empress para eq pedal) to use as my main amp for a while... I have not gigged with it yet but have had a few loud rehersals with it. It has a unique sound and feel that I'm getting used to, has fantastic features and is Much louder than the WA.
Your review has me thinking I should put the LM tube on my radar if the SL 600 doesn't make the cut! The most important thing for me is to retain that vintage, organic, tube tone that have nice and punchy, gritty 3d sounding mids when you dig in playing fingerstyle. Basically - its tone that's ALL Walkabout
Very tempted.
The LMTube is quite different from the Streamliner, and I always recommend either the LMIII or the new Big Bang. Very similar (identical) tone, simpler, a bit better looking aesthetically IMO.
I replaced my Streamliner900 with the Aguilar TH500 for the exact reason you list.... still very warm, nice big low end, but massively more midrange complexity than either the Streamliner or the LM series of amps. Not better or worse, but man, it just growls and punches, and outperforms the LM series of heads in open, uncompressed low end when pushed (very different power amp limiting behavior, and a seemingly much more robust power section). It buries the Walkabout volume-wise (although that Walkabout tone is unique and wonderful). All are quite an amazing little heads.
For those interested in the LM tone, the Big Bang seems the thing. A bit more robust power section, and from the reviews, similar warm, even tone. It is a shame they removed the semi-parametric mids versus the head it replaced (F500), but otherwise, pretty cool.
I believe that actually was the case in some of the early versions of the 750 (can't quite remember). There were quite a few reports of high heat (although no failures) with the initial runs of those heads when run at 2ohms. The new 800 is, again from what I understand, optimized for cooler 2ohm operation versus the 750.
+1, great sounding amp that is very high quality, with great service and support. I was quite a fanatic for a number of years, starting out with the TF420EU (which was the first 550), then the TF550a (I think I had the first 'switch' off the line!) and then ending up with the TF550b. Dave does a great job improving this classic amp with every release without losing the initial vibe. Pretty cool!
Anyway, fun thread, good job to the OP. I like all these heads for different reasons. And, the HS410 is the PERFECT cab for use with some of these more tubey, bloomy cabs. Amazing 'vintage meets modern' tone from that cab IMO and IME!
The th500 test i did with a friend that brough over to compare It was a direct a/b with my db750 which has a nice set of old nos tubes. Tele, amprex, etc. He was gigging with the th500 and not really digging it and thinking of trading for the DB. The disappointment for me was the expectation that the th500 was close to the tone and dynamics of the DB. We both agreed that when directly comparing them through the hs410, the db750 just sounded so much more organic, smooth, and the dynamics were so superior. The low end tighter and the highs were beefier and more musical. I'm sure the th500 is a great head and a good value. But still sounded a little blah in comparison to the tonal heavyweights when compared at the same time. We played with the knobs quite abit too. Sounded in the same vein as the streamliners which aren't up my alley. Again my tone is more shifted toward the vintage svt side of the house but I have an appreciation for the db750 tone in the right context. I'm sure a great superlight head at a great price especially used, but technology still not there to capture the true essence of tubes. The walkabout and the lm tube are closure IMO.
Ps. The slap tone of my 64 jazz with rounds and the lm tube on the full tube setting is to die for. The walkabout is also really good.
The thunderfunk sounds much cleaner and modern. With my mtd is aspires me to play some gospel! Just nails that clean articulate modern gospel tone with the 535.
The thunderfunk sounds much cleaner and modern. With my mtd is aspires me to play some gospel! Just nails that clean articulate modern gospel tone with the 535.
+1 All good stuff, and no two heads really sound exactly alike. That being said, I can't think of two heads that sound more different than the Streamliner and the TH500, but again, no big deal. We seem somewhat similar in how we hear things though, which is why the TH500 thing is a bit of a surprise for me (totally get your feeling about the Streamliner... that is a very different thing that many love and many just can't get along with).
I tell you what, if Aguilar would port that semi-parametric mid control of the TH500 to the DB751, that would be pretty killing. I never could come to terms with the relaxed midrange of the DB750. IMO there.
Fun journey for you! Rare that you get to try all this stuff in real time. It gets even more interesting if you have a couple of very differently voiced cabs. That REALLY uncovers some stuff! Amazing to me how similar the Thunderfunk voicing can be to the LM voicing. Dave even has a 'trade your LM in' special going on. There were a LOT of us that moved from the TF550 series to the LM 5 or 6 years ago.
PS I'd be curious to hear your take on the Markbass TTE500 (I think that is what it is called, the 'Randy Jackson' model) if you ever get a chance to try one. Multipe tube pre and a different 'tube emulation type limiter' and class A/B power amp with SMPS. Much love for that head on TB. I've seen them and the quality of the build is magnificent. I've never heard one though. Supposedly pretty amazing.
That was my thought exactly when I read this. Different strokes. I currently have a TH500 and a walkabout. I've had the STM and just worked out a trade to get a 600 for the walkabout. Even though they all fall into what seems to pass for "tube like tone" they're all different.
I've had a 550b and it was awesome as well. I really liked the tight low end. The STM and the TH weight have spoiled me. After gigging the TH the WA seemed like an anchor. I've picked up the TH bag with the amp in it an panicked because I thought it was empty.
I'm sure the DB sounds wonderful but I don't think I could ever carry an amp like that again. I'm a self professed hack so weigh my opinion accordingly.
Here's a possibly controversial question, and a bit of a tangent.
I've not had much luck with the Class-D's I've tried (AI, Streamliner, TC RH450) in that IMO, IME etc. they seem to 'lose their shape' when the going gets tough. The Walkabout really pushes it out and holds it together within reason, given it's output.
Do the class A/B Markbass heads show similar characteristics to old-fashioned amps with a lump of metal in 'em, or do they share the same behaviour as the Class-D's?
I'm still not 100% on the difference...
I've not had much luck with the Class-D's I've tried (AI, Streamliner, TC RH450) in that IMO, IME etc. they seem to 'lose their shape' when the going gets tough. The Walkabout really pushes it out and holds it together within reason, given it's output.
Do the class A/B Markbass heads show similar characteristics to old-fashioned amps with a lump of metal in 'em, or do they share the same behaviour as the Class-D's?
I'm still not 100% on the difference...
All amps sound and behave differently, and IMO it has little to do with the topology of the power amp. I found, personally, the Walkabout to totally give up the ghost when really pushed.
I believe what you are talking about is power supply. There are class A/B amps with switching power supplies (like the Markbass LMIII), there are class D amps with 'heavy, traditional' power supplies like the EA iAmp800, the Aguilar AG500, the Epifani 502), etc., etc.
My feeling is you just didn't dig the voicing of the smaller amps you tried. For example, my Glock Blue Soul (class D and switch mode power supply) hammers as hard and open as any amp I've ever heard, period. The Thunderfunk 750a, which has a traditional 'heavy' power supply does not behave that differently down low than many of the micro's I've A/B'd it against.
The TC RH450 is a unique design which gets its sound from lots of tube emulation and limiting circuitry, which causes it to sound a bit compressed down low... nothing to do with topology. The AI amps are nice and warm, and voiced primarily for DB. While they sound fine, they don't 'hammer' like some other micro's to my ear (not part of the design goal). The Streamliner900 hammered down low for me, but the voicing was very mid polite and relaxed, and as a result, it was more 'fat and wide' that 'complex and punchy'. Again, more of a voicing issue than a 'topology' issue IMO and IME.
Edit: Put more simply, if you were to gather a large number of different class A/B/traditional power supply heads and compare all these heads on a blind basis randomly with an equal number of different Class D and/or SMPS topology heads, no one would be able to identify the 'groups' correctly. Each amp would sound different, and the variance in tone and performance within class of amp is as wide and varied as across topologies. Every amp sounds different, and that is due as much to quality of components, design decisions, preamp voicing, absolute power levels, distortion levels, etc., etc., as much or more than simply the type of power amp or power supply. IMO and IME!
Another good indication of 'topology doesn't matter' is the fact that virtually every high end concert level PA system is driven by class D/SMPS power these days.
The class D I have tried digital power supplies
F1
TH500
Streamliner
Genz 6.0
Markbass lm tube 800
A/B analog
Lm II
Lm Iii
Lm tube
Tube pre. Analog power transformers
Db750
Walkabout
TF750
All tube
DB359
SVT CL
72 Vintage SVT
For me I have seen a correlation between tone and the type of pre power amps used. Not really knowing at the time when comparing My least favorite have by chance been class D. They just sound more sterile and clinical precise to me, less musical. On their own you may not notice but if you have a nice tube amp next to them the difference is very apparent. I also dig a little tube feel to the notes which tube amps and to a smaller degree the analog ss possess.
My all time favorite clean tone was the aggi db359. But that head was heavy and did not have any headroom and a weird tube breakup when pushed. Wish they had that tone and dynamics in a 5 lb box!
Walkabout
F1
TH500
Streamliner
Genz 6.0
Markbass lm tube 800
A/B analog
Lm II
Lm Iii
Lm tube
Tube pre. Analog power transformers
Db750
Walkabout
TF750
All tube
DB359
SVT CL
72 Vintage SVT
For me I have seen a correlation between tone and the type of pre power amps used. Not really knowing at the time when comparing My least favorite have by chance been class D. They just sound more sterile and clinical precise to me, less musical. On their own you may not notice but if you have a nice tube amp next to them the difference is very apparent. I also dig a little tube feel to the notes which tube amps and to a smaller degree the analog ss possess.
My all time favorite clean tone was the aggi db359. But that head was heavy and did not have any headroom and a weird tube breakup when pushed. Wish they had that tone and dynamics in a 5 lb box!
Walkabout
Typo. The tf750 has no tube pre. Shoud be with the little mark bunch but possess a large iron transformer different than the lm aB analog power.
I would agree that a tube power section seems to be a different thing (at least if you push it a bit). Solid state topologies, not so much IMO, and differences seem primarily due to design choices, preamp voicing, lo and hi passing differences, etc., etc. Remember, the LMtube has a switch mode power supply. All three of my current amps happen to be class D/SMPS, and they all sound so different as to almost be from different planets!
Minor issue. I would definitely not 'take an amp off my consideration list' due to class of amp or power supply. HUGE variation of tones within each topology category, and more overlap than difference to my ear.
A good example is how much closer the F1 sounds to the LMII versus the LMT800 (had all three at one time, hated the LMT800, loved the F1 and LMII, and eventually liking the F1 even better than the LMII due to the more open low end when pushed. Quite similar tone with just a slight adjustment of EQ IMO and IME).
Thanks for the input Ken!
You know, I have always stayed away from Markbass stuff for some reason or another... too popular? too ugly? or just too busy trying other gear! I have a lot of interest in the TH500, and I really like look/form of the amp. I have owned an Aggie 659/728 setup... Very well built, fantastic sounding gear no doubt.
The main reason for the interest in the LMTube for me is the 500 watt class A power section and this nice review. I really loved my Puma 500 with its Class A. Maybe I'll never notice the difference vs the TH500 class D? I dunno...
Also, someone once told me that the RS210's sound similar to the Berg HS series cabs, except for the low end compression the HS's have. If that's the case, I'm in the same camp as the OP which is something to consider I guess. I do love the sound of these RS210's... best bang for buck I have ever seen or heard!
So, now you got me thinking about the TH500 too
decisions... decisions.
