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Double Bass Time to replace Realist?

T

turf3

Sep 26, 2011
6,855
16,334
#1
I've been using a Realist pickup (the copper one) for about 10 years now. Output seems to be going down and getting more and more bassy. Is this something one would expect? I know piezos don't have infinite life. When I bought my AI Contra (series I, the Artoo Detoo model) I didn't even need to use a preamp - now I've gone back to using a preamp.

I have read a lot about piezo pickups degrading and making bad sounds; but this isn't what's happening, it just seems like I get less and less high end out of the bass/pickup/amp with each month.

I do not regularly play amplified; most of the time I'm playing unamplified, so it's hard for me to say positively what's different between how the thing might have sounded three months ago and how it sounds now.

At any rate, I feel I need to change something, and it seems to me it's going to be either the pickup or the amp. Does this kind of behavior comport with others' experiences of a bridge-foot-sandwiched piezo reaching its end of life?
 
#2
Has it shifted under your bridge at all?
I can’t imagine that the shelf life of a piezo is only 10 years.
I’ve been using my FRAP for almost 45 years…of course no one notices why I sound bad…gear or technique…doesn’t really matter. I blend mine with a magnetic PU through a pre-amp, so it’s not my only mode of amplification, but it still does what I need it to do.
 
#3
10 years of 60 kp pressure on a material that generates electron flow on bending and pressure variation can loose a biting it‘s qualities. And the ceramic element under the bridge foot is even constantly bent a bit which is additional stress for the ceramic.

Remember that the bridge wing pickups (also working on pressure variation) sound best with a low pressure in the bridge wing. That‘s a lot less than under a bridge foot.
Thicker elements can even break under a hard impact (on the bridge crown) like in the Full Circle.
 
#7
I used a realist for a short time but for my tastes, on my bass, it was too boomy and indistinct playing with a drummer. It was really nice at very low volumes. Anyhow, I didn’t like the way mine fit; the bridge sort of rocked on those two discs. So I had someone carve out two small spots on the underside of the bridge foot, then it fit perfectly. But….the output was significantly lowered. Pick your poison.

The lifeline is sort-of similar in sound, but IMO it lacks some of the good things abut the realist, i.e. a nice thumpy attack, and retains some of the not-so-good things, i.e no upper midrange. But it is a bit smoother and more even across the strings.

Bassists vary wildly in their preferences for sound, and the context in which you play (group size, volume level, etc) matters. Unfortunately, the only way you’re going to know what works best for you is to try different things. Since you said you rarely play amplified, you might consider the advantage of the full circle or Yamahiko; they replace the adjusters, and there is no extra element on your bridge. So they don’t affect the acoustic sound of the bass when not in use.
 
#9
MIMike said:
Has it shifted under your bridge at all?
I can’t imagine that the shelf life of a piezo is only 10 years.
I’ve been using my FRAP for almost 45 years…of course no one notices why I sound bad…gear or technique…doesn’t really matter. I blend mine with a magnetic PU through a pre-amp, so it’s not my only mode of amplification, but it still does what I need it to do.
Click to expand...
You're probably the only person who still uses the FRAP. I got one in the early 70s and never was able to find the sweet spot. It was really expensive and too putzy on the gig IMO. Maybe I'd have better luck now. I'm curious to know where it's placed on your bass and if you still have and ever use the original preamp. I think I finally gave up on mine when the wire on the pickup got noisy and unreliable and other pickups became available. I had similar issues with the Realist. The wire connector gave out on a couple of them I used for a while. They sounded good with a bright-sounding instrument I used them on, but gave out on a gig in both cases. One of my main must-haves on the job is reliability so the Realist was out for me.
 
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#11
I had two original Realists fail after about 4 years each. I went with the Ehrlund EAP which is great on my bass. That said, you’d have to try one first and they aren’t the easiest pickup to find a sweet spot on the bass with and they’re really expensive now. If you have an adjustable bridge the Realist Life Line is simple, easy to mount and sounds pretty darn good. Just my take.
 
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#12
Bruce Calin said:
You're probably the only person who still uses the FRAP. I got one in the early 70s and never was able to find the sweet spot. It was really expensive and too putzy on the gig IMO. Maybe I'd have better luck now. I'm curious to know where it's placed on your bass and if you still have and ever use the original preamp. I think I finally gave up on mine when the wire on the pickup got noisy and unreliable and other pickups became available. I had similar issues with the Realist. The wire connector gave out on a couple of them I used for a while. They sounded good with a bright-sounding instrument I used them on, but gave out on a gig in both cases. One of my main must-haves on the job is reliability so the Realist was out for me
Click to expand...

The FRAP was only used by itself for a few years in college. I got an old Barcus Berry pre I used with it then.
This one ( which really sounds good with any bass BTW):

IMG_0680.jpeg


When I needed my upright for the blues-swing-soul gig I had in the late 90’s / early 2000’s, I needed way more gain before feedback than I could get with just the piezo. I bought a Biesele magnetic pickup that has a built in pre-amp with a blend knob. The FRAP was just blended in to get some finger noise and make it sound like an acoustic bass. Tha majority of the volume came from the mag pickup. I’ve used this setup ever since.

IMG_1393.jpeg

(Not my image, but the same PU I have)
 
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#13
I had Realist Copper, and still have it for about 15 years, still works, on one bass. On the other bass I have Realist Lifeline, which is a bit more 'realistic', but somehow I liked the Copperhead better. Later I bought Ehrlund EAP contact microphone, which is way more true to the real acoustic sound than both of these. I even use the pickup for amateur studio recording when there's no sound shielding available. I suggest to look into this kind of pickups. It's called 'contact microphone', there are also other manufacturers (Ischell and surely more).
From the point of sound and feedback it's something in the middle between classic piezo and a microphone. I use the Ehrlund in a big band with no feedback issues. The important advantage is that you can put it on the bass and remove it instantly, without need of permament installation, so you can easily use it on more basses or other acoustic instruments.
 
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#14
MIMike said:
The FRAP was only used by itself for a few years in college. I got an old Barcus Berry pre I used with it then.
This one ( which really sounds good with any bass BTW):

View attachment 7036518

When I needed my upright for the blues-swing-soul gig I had in the late 90’s / early 2000’s, I needed way more gain before feedback than I could get with just the piezo. I bought a Biesele magnetic pickup that has a built in pre-amp with a blend knob. The FRAP was just blended in to get some finger noise and make it sound like an acoustic bass. Tha majority of the volume came from the mag pickup. I’ve used this setup ever since.

View attachment 7036522
(Not my image, but the same PU I have)
Click to expand...
This is another forum that makes me shake my head when I recall all the different pickups, mikes, amps, etc. I've tried over the years, not to mention time and money spent. I finally came to the "It sounds decent and I can depend on it" philosophy but it took a long time. I'm still curious about where you ended up placing the FRAP.
 
#15
Bruce Calin said:
This is another forum that makes me shake my head when I recall all the different pickups, mikes, amps, etc. I've tried over the years, not to mention time and money spent. I finally came to the "It sounds decent and I can depend on it" philosophy but it took a long time. I'm still curious about where you ended up placing the FRAP.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I didn’t answer all of your questions before. The FRAP has always been mounted with double sided tap, on the bass side of the bridge, spanning the gap between the wing and the foot. I don’t have a picture of it to show you exactly though. My first pickup was a Polytone that always seemed to vibrate a little loose and I didn’t use that for long. I acquired the FRAP way back in 1980 or 81, so it wasn’t terribly old at that time. It worked better than the polytone and was less expensive than the Underwood, which was probably one of the most popular PU,s at that time.
The Barcus-Berry preamp I got with the FRAP really does sound good, but I have also used a Sadowsky and others over the years before I got the magnetic pickup. The blend knob on the Biesele’s built in pre-amp is a nice feature. High volume gigs on a smaller stage…once you hear some feedback, just blend out the piezo some till it stops feeding back.
Thankfully, in this day and age, stage volumes have come down quite a bit and amps, if used at all, can be set for only stage monitoring volume.
 
#16
MIMike said:
Sorry, I didn’t answer all of your questions before. The FRAP has always been mounted with double sided tap, on the bass side of the bridge, spanning the gap between the wing and the foot. I don’t have a picture of it to show you exactly though. My first pickup was a Polytone that always seemed to vibrate a little loose and I didn’t use that for long. I acquired the FRAP way back in 1980 or 81, so it wasn’t terribly old at that time. It worked better than the polytone and was less expensive than the Underwood, which was probably one of the most popular PU,s at that time.
The Barcus-Berry preamp I got with the FRAP really does sound good, but I have also used a Sadowsky and others over the years before I got the magnetic pickup. The blend knob on the Biesele’s built in pre-amp is a nice feature. High volume gigs on a smaller stage…once you hear some feedback, just blend out the piezo some till it stops feeding back.
Thankfully, in this day and age, stage volumes have come down quite a bit and amps, if used at all, can be set for only stage monitoring volume.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply. That's one place I never would have thought of. The Polytone is another one I tried but had the same problem. I tried a magnetic pickup way back when but for some reason I don't recall it didn't last. I had the original FRAP preamp but it also disappeared at some point.
 

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