Tiny Head, Same Big Speaker Cabs: What's the Point?

[bedrockhead]

 

[stonewall]

I am aware of the trend toward tiny, lightweight bass heads. That's all well and good, but what's the point if most speaker cabinets are just as large and heavy as they've always been. I am genuinely perplexed. Other than perhaps using a tiny bass head for practice (with headphones) or maybe the studio, what's the point of having it in a live setting?

Im loving my Mark Bass 15combo Jeff Berlin model 300watts nice and light

 

[Kragnorak]

By "have to," I mean "in order to gain any meaningful overall benefit." If I still have to lug around 35lbs. speaker cabs, the advantage of a small, light head is relatively small and perhaps not worth the money.

I'll give you my $0.02 ... One of my rehearsal spaces is at the top of a hill. It's not a huge hill, but irritating at the end of a long day to make multiple trips. They already have cabs there, but I'm not crazy about their heads. I much prefer the tone I get from my <10 lb Genz Benz ShuttleMax Pro. So here's my trip up the hill:

• Slung over right shoulder - 5-string bass and Genz Benz amp head
• Slung over left shoulder - duffel bag with cables and power and stuff - easily 15 lbs, often more
• Carried in right hand - pedalboard with 6+ pedals on it
• Carried in left hand - 7-string bass (the heavier one)

It's a trudge, but better than multiple trips sometimes, and I'm golden if someone can get the door for me. Please note that I'm loaded with 5 items, and 3 of them are heavier than my Class D amp. Can you do the same, even with less gear?

Now, at a gig I have Aguilar cabs which sound great and are reasonably light and the 2x12 has great casters. So I load my 1x12 on top and just wheel that in. If I have to lift, I can carry the 1x12 with one hand. Including my guitar stands, I tend to make 3 trips out and a couple back with empty cases and bags.

All bets are out the window if I have to play keys as well. Then my life is miserable because there are a bajillion more things to set up and my keyboard amps are heavy as sin!

 

[rfricke]

I have a pr. of Eden EX210N 8 ohm cabs, 20 lbs. each, and each cab rated at 500 watts RMS.
I also have a couple of Eden EN115 8 ohm cabs with castors, and each one weighs about 40 lbs.

 

[PeteOlig]

Such as? The ones that I own are relatively heavy, so any purchase of a lightweight head is largely (hahahaha) beside the point.

Schroeder and Bareface, to name two.

 

[Stan Haldane]

You're either trollin' on the backwaters looking to tease the faithful here, or are seriously out-of-touch with today's cabs.

Aside from the boutique brands, Fender's Rumble series has been the darling of lightweight cabinets since the V3's were introduced.

Look and tell shall see, Selowitch. BTW, I'm guessing the latter...

I have a Fender Rumble 500, seems to weigh less than my old Precision that I put through it!!

 

[scooper]

are you being obtuse intentionally?

I am using a Subway series D-800 head (five lbs.), two 1x15 Subway series cabs (37 lbs. each) with a G&L 2500, and Shure GLXD remote/tuner. Combination of plenty of power, tonal control, reliability and very lightweight. Direct connect to the PA for monitors. Not cheap but a considerable savings from other lightweight cabs. I prefer to avoid back surgery.

 

[ELS011]

I am aware of the trend toward tiny, lightweight bass heads. That's all well and good, but what's the point if most speaker cabinets are just as large and heavy as they've always been. I am genuinely perplexed. Other than perhaps using a tiny bass head for practice (with headphones) or maybe the studio, what's the point of having it in a live setting?

I agree. I am getting on in years and just can't move the equipment anymore. I have always joked that guitar players come to a gig with their guitar and amp, and bass players show up with their bass and a hand truck!. I have somewhat solved the problem. I have a Galien Kruger 500 watt head that weighs around 3-5 lbs, and a GK 4x10' Neo cabinet that weighs 55 lbs. Unfortunately, that cabinet has become too heavy. I recently bought a Hartke KB12 combo that is 500 watts and has a 12"Neo speaker. It is 28 lbs. It was adequate for a small venue I play at. Anything larger I think I would have to take the 4x10" cabinet.

 

[Loring]

I've never been a fan of neodynium drivers in the lightweight cabs. Not as much mid definition as traditional drivers.

False.

 

[Loring]

So does this mean that all my old heavyweight gear is worthless, or will the pendulum swing back again one day?

Vintage gear is always going to hold it's value... I could get more for my SVT today (if I still had it) than I paid for it new...

Mind you garbage is garbage no matter how old - and won't hold it's value YMMV

 

[Walk The Dogs]

I am aware of the trend toward tiny, lightweight bass heads. That's all well and good, but what's the point if most speaker cabinets are just as large and heavy as they've always been. I am genuinely perplexed. Other than perhaps using a tiny bass head for practice (with headphones) or maybe the studio, what's the point of having it in a live setting?

There are relatively light cabs and others that weigh like they're filled with concrete.

My favorite cabinet is my Guild-Hartke 4x10 which weighs almost 90 pounds. To drive it I have a Walter Woods 300w head that weighs so little that I can lift it with just a pinkie so it doesn't make much sense, portability wise.

Last week I bought a Markbass 2x10 combo which weighs just 40 pounds for everything. I still prefer the sound of my old setup but this is definitely easier to haul around and produces the volume I need.

 

[bedrockhead]

I have a Fender Rumble 500, seems to weigh less than my old Precision that I put through it!!

The bassist in the cover band I play drums in uses the Rumble 500 head, 410 and 115 cabs. His whole rig weighs about what one of my Peavey cabs does. He has yet to push it over 3, and we have a loudass guitarist. I'm not exactly using 7A sticks and paper thin crashes either.

If I do purge my whole heavy rig it would be for that same one he has.

 

[Nook]

If you really need a typical full stack (4x10 and 1x15) I am afraid you won't get much lighter/smaller. I other cases, there Is a lot of options. One of them could be Invalid Link Removed ;-)

 

[Terry Wilson]

I am aware of the trend toward tiny, lightweight bass heads. That's all well and good, but what's the point if most speaker cabinets are just as large and heavy as they've always been. I am genuinely perplexed. Other than perhaps using a tiny bass head for practice (with headphones) or maybe the studio, what's the point of having it in a live setting?

The point is...Unless your playing big sheds or outdoor stages...you don't have to play that loud nowadays....and even then, you'll have a DI ... let the sound guy out front use the subs and mains for the bass. You can crank it still if you any of the newer Class D 5-6 lb heads (GenzBenz, Trickfish, MarkBass)...lots to choose from that sound great. I use 2 different Schroeder cabs depending on the gig. My 1 x 12" 400 watt Schroeder (28 lbs) handles most of my gigs...but, sometimes bring in my 2 x 12" Schroeder (34 lbs)...both sound great with my GenzBenz Streamliner 900 (6 lbs). Plenty of clean headroom and I can make one trip from my car with my rig and P Bass. And I ain't sore the next morning ....you can always run the DI as well to touch up in the mix. But, IF you're struggling to be heard over the rest of the band with any of these heads or cabs.....someone's playing too loud.

 

[GZboat]

Admittedly, I haven't read all 18 pages of this thread, but has anyone stopped to discuss the basic physics of generating low frequency sound? There are certain parameters (like cone area, cabinet volume, cabinet rigidity, and horn length) that simply don't change, regardless of amplification styles and fads. If a player or band doesn't feel the need for deep low end on stage for monitoring purposes (a completely reasonable position, by the way), smaller cabinets with less cone area are fine. Just let the front-of-house PA stacks create the real low frequency energy. If true, deep low end is wanted onstage from the bass rig (likely to the distress of both the FOH and monitor mixers), then the previously-mentioned parameters are going to force the use of larger, heavier cabinets. Design engineering (of speaker cabinets and pretty much everything else) is always a matter of compromise, always. Small, lightweight bass cabinets of modest cone area achieve their portability at a cost; you can depend on it. But it's a cost a particular player in a particular situation might be willing to pay (even wise to pay).
Greg

 

[Brians356]

To revisit the question, "What's the point?" refers to buying a lightweight head. If all you ever play are stage gigs requiring a lot of volume, it might be a valid question, notwithstanding that there are lightweight cabs as well. But consider the veteran pro bassists I worked with in Nevada the '70s who were well past middle age, even elderly (I was just a kid.) That was in the heyday of studio session work and big casino showrooms. A busy player often did not need to bring a cab with him, he just plugged into the board or a resident cab. Many pros jumped on the tiny Walter Woods heads, which were soon fully blessed by sound engineers, and the grateful bassist could arrive with one stuffed in his gig bag. Even if a live gig required providing a cab, often times it could be left on a secured stage for the length of an extended engagement while the player took his precious WW home with him every night. (I think some cats slept with their WWs, they were so smitten.) So "What's the point?" It depends on your stature, both physically and professionally speaking.

 

[treiter]

Such as? The ones that I own are relatively heavy, so any purchase of a lightweight head is largely (hahahaha) beside the point.

I like Eden 210 XST. 500W, goes to 28Hz. 2 is handleable if really needed for stage vol outdoors.
Nowadays, the Neo's are significantly lighter for us oldsters. Smaller is better when you've got a good soundman.

 

[mike_mckaigg]

I am aware of the trend toward tiny, lightweight bass heads. That's all well and good, but what's the point if most speaker cabinets are just as large and heavy as they've always been. I am genuinely perplexed. Other than perhaps using a tiny bass head for practice (with headphones) or maybe the studio, what's the point of having it in a live setting?

I see a couple of options. for a "fly-in" gig it's nice to have a light head to put in a bag and plug in to cabinets that may be available locally. Or for myself, I have the Hartke TX600 (7 pounds, 600 Watts) and two HyDrive 1x12 cabinets. I use one or both depending on the gig and they're switchable 4 or 8 ohms. I used one cab at 4 ohms for a pit orchestra gig last month.

 

[Rod Jay]

Neodymium magnets have significantly reduced large bass magnet weight in speakers while maintaining the same or similar gauss. I purchased a Gallien-Krueger Neo 115-III 1x15" 400-Watt Cabinet w/Horn 8-Ohm as my extension cab for my 2-10" Ampeg combo and it only weighs 40 lbs. It has great definition and kick and is easy to transport!

 

[Doug R]

You know, nobody will force you to get rid of your big speakers if you decide to experiment with some smaller ones. Since I got my little GB Shuttle amp head I have found it works equally well with big OR small speakers. For most gigs I can get by very well with a 2-10 neo speaker (30 lbs.) but it's good to know I can drag out my big dual 15" monster - or BOTH - if the situation calls for massive bass from the back line.
I find that the smaller rig works 90% of the time, and it's enough oomph for on-stage volume and easy to send a feed to the main PA when more bass is needed out front. Really, about the only times I feel the need for massive speakers is loud outdoor concerts when volume on stage can get really loud.