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To all custom/boutique pedal makers....a switchless option?

M

MGR

Inactive
Jan 18, 2015
1,797
1,325
Bronx, NY
#1
In my quest for True Bypass loopers, I got to thinking, if I am using a looper, why shouldn't I have the option of buying an effect pedal that doesn't have a bypass switch but rather is simply hardwired to be "always on?"

I mean, the switch would really be redundant because you can control it with the looper.

I figure the advantage to this are a few:

1) No switch to wear out or break.
2) The hardwired connection has to increase fidelity, even just slightly.
3) More room for knobs to control the pedal.
4) Slightly cheaper in cost since there is no physical part that costs money, and less physical labor to not install that part.

Yes, there would be disadvantages, such as less flexibilty I suppose, but still......

Again, this would be only for people running true bypass loopers, and of course, once you buy a switchless pedal, you are committed, but for me, I'd like to at least have the option. I figure only a boutique maker has the time and scale to offer this.

So, I ask you, do you have an opinion of this idea one way or another?
 
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#2
The market is not big enough for a pedal company to justify making a pedal only for people who use bypass loopers. Fidelity should not change at all.

What you see for prices on foot switches is not what builders are paying. You may have to pay $3, but they're buying in bulk and buying other parts with them.

Pricing is set to what the market will bear, not necessarily on a cost basis. A $99.99 pedal will not drop to $98.23 if the foot switch is omitted.

All of this is my opinion. YMMV and junk
 
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#4
MGR said:
I mean, the switch would really be redundant because you can control it with the looper.

I figure the advantage to this are a few:

1) No switch to wear out or break.
2) The hardwired connection has to increase fidelity, even just slightly.
3) More room for knobs to control the pedal.
4) Slightly cheaper in cost since there is no physical part that costs money, and less physical labor to not install that part.
Click to expand...

These aren't really advantages.
1) If you are leaving a pedal always on (in a loop), the switch will never get used/worn out, anyway. Plus, I've never worn out a switch...not that it doesn't happen, just never happened enough to make me think saving any clicks at all is a real advantage.
2) All of your fidelity loss happens in the tone modifying parts of the circuit, not the switch.
3) Err, maybe.
4) I disagree slightly with the above post'r. Every bit of parts savings can earn you points on setting MSRP. But that advantage would assume volume sales, something that doesn't happen in most pedals, much less so with boutique pedals, and approaching infinitely less so with a switch-less boutique pedal.

Interesting post for a wednesday morn, tho.
 
#5
jumblemind said:
These aren't really advantages.
1) If you are leaving a pedal always on (in a loop), the switch will never get used/worn out, anyway. Plus, I've never worn out a switch...not that it doesn't happen, just never happened enough to make me think saving any clicks at all is a real advantage.
2) All of your fidelity loss happens in the tone modifying parts of the circuit, not the switch.
3) Err, maybe.
4) I disagree slightly with the above post'r. Every bit of parts savings can earn you points on setting MSRP. But that advantage would assume volume sales, something that doesn't happen in most pedals, much less so with boutique pedals, and approaching infinitely less so with a switch-less boutique pedal.

Interesting post for a wednesday morn, tho.
Click to expand...
OP here. Thanks for this, and all fair and valid points. I guess where I am really going with this idea is just to eliminate as much redundancy as possible. If nothing else, can we agree that a switchless pedal would have more room for artwork then? ;)

Anyhow, the validity of this idea is obviously up for debate, but I figure if I will have my pedals always on, why not just eliminate a now-redundant link in the chain between my cables and the amp?
 
#7
jumblemind said:
4) I disagree slightly with the above post'r. Every bit of parts savings can earn you points on setting MSRP. But that advantage would assume volume sales, something that doesn't happen in most pedals, much less so with boutique pedals, and approaching infinitely less so with a switch-less boutique pedal.

Interesting post for a wednesday morn, tho.
Click to expand...

I thought about that too, but I decided that it wasn't enough to change it that much. I pedal "has" to cost $XX9.99, so it's not going to change the MSRP (in my opinion). But if eliminating the switch will make your pedal go from a 1590BB to a 1590, then overall there's maybe a $3-$4 material cost savings. That's 3% material savings on a $150 pedal. 3% is 3%, but I don't think the margins are that tight for builders.

With the added savings of 3%, the saleability is decreased due to the lack of footswitch.
 
#9
MGR said:
3) More room for knobs to control the pedal.
Click to expand...
Single biggest reason why this is great idea. Without footswitch you could easily have 4 decent sized knobs on 1590A enclosure (and thus have any type of pedal in this loved but restricted pedal format), which might be big deal for bunch of people. But, guitar pedals are conservative market, so I doubt we would see this.
 
#10
MGR said:
In my quest for True Bypass loopers, I got to thinking, if I am using a looper, why shouldn't I have the option of buying an effect pedal that doesn't have a bypass switch but rather is simply hardwired to be "always on?"
Click to expand...

Actually, that does exist. I just found out about this yesterday, but Cusack Music DOES make no-switch, always-on pedals for use in loops.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
 
#12
ryansalmond said:
I like this idea.
By fidelity I imagine he means it would eliminate questions of bypass audio quality.
Click to expand...
OP here. This is exactly what I mean. Taking the switch out has to increase fidelity somewhat because you'd be eliminating the whole bypass system altogether. It may be a small difference, but I bet there would be one.
 
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#13
recnsci said:
Single biggest reason why this is great idea. Without footswitch you could easily have 4 decent sized knobs on 1590A enclosure (and thus have any type of pedal in this loved but restricted pedal format), which might be big deal for bunch of people. But, guitar pedals are conservative market, so I doubt we would see this.
Click to expand...
Op here. Precisely, and thanks for the post. Yes, even getting one more knob on there may make a huge difference.
 
#14
MGR said:
OP here. This is exactly what I mean. Taking the switch out has to increase fidelity somewhat because you'd be eliminating the who bypass system altogether. It may be a small difference, but I bet there would be one.
Click to expand...
The second you use a pedal with a decent buffer, the differences become immaterial. I guess if you're always going to use a looper, that's fine, but even if I did, there would be times I might only want to use one or two pedals and wouldn't need a looper. Plus I'd be at the mercy of companies who made never-off pedals and not get to use the pedals I really want, so I couldn't do it.
 
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#15
While I'm not a pedal builder myself, I've been looking into some custom pedals recently and it seems like certain brands are pretty accommodating. They would probably be willing to make one for you if you ask. I doubt they would make one stock because it simply wouldn't sell.
 
#16
JimmyM said:
The second you use a pedal with a decent buffer, the differences become immaterial. I guess if you're always going to use a looper, that's fine, but even if I did, there would be times I might only want to use one or two pedals and wouldn't need a looper. Plus I'd be at the mercy of companies who made never-off pedals and not get to use the pedals I really want, so I couldn't do it.
Click to expand...
A fair and totally valid critique. I guess this would only make sense if a person is dedicated to their bypass looper...........or if they never want to turn a pedal off ;)
 
#17
MGR said:
OP here. This is exactly what I mean. Taking the switch out has to increase fidelity somewhat because you'd be eliminating the whole bypass system altogether. It may be a small difference, but I bet there would be one.
Click to expand...

The difference on a TBP pedal would be soooooo small that it most likely would be nearly impossible to measure with top quality test equipment. Meaning that you would never be able to detect it with human hearing.

-Frank
 
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