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to Behringer or not to...

Z

zerotonine

Jun 7, 2008
43
1
The Netherlands
#1
I am looking for an amp that has the power to play together with a double kick drummer while still being affordable. I also want the amp to have good full tone and be durable.
So I went to my local music store and asked for such an amp. The response I got was that my only option is to get the Behringer
ULTRABASS BXL3000A [Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I got the impression the guy who I was talking to at the store was not trying to help me but was just trying to sell an amp instead of trying find out what I was looking for.
So my question is whether this Behringer amp is really such a good deal or should I look for something else. I haven't heard much good about Behringer amps and I was personally thinking about getting an Ampeg or an Ashdown amp.

So any suggestions on what's good are welcome. I also need some advice on wattage because I've been told I need 100 watts and I have been told I need at least 300 watts so I have no clue as to what to believe.

Thanks for reading all my blabberin.
 
#2
If you went to a GC and asked that, it's probable that they gave you the Behringer answer because of Behringer's profit margins over amps such as the GK Backline 600. The Backline 600 is the same as GK's 400RBIV, just made in China so it's way less expensive. Behringer is not a good amp. Keep looking around for amps, and look at GC and MgR's used inventory, they have a pretty good list of stuff on their websites.

Nothing's going to be as affordable as a Behringer, but nothing's going to be as cheap, either.
 
#3
You'll hear it pretty much from everybody here. To date Beringher produce relatively low quality products, which might be ok for the money but there are many many many other brands which are of a higher quality and which would not break the budget. You mentioned Ashdown which do quality amps. Another good maker is GK which are also very reasonably priced and many, including myself, will vouch for their durability and good sound.

I'm afraid that the salesperson is simply trying to unload some of his stock to an uninitiated.

Regarding wattage, it very much depends on what type of gigs you play or your rehearsal situation. In my opinion, you should get no less than 200 watts. This will be way more than enough if you intend to use the amp as a bedroom rehearsal amp but you'll probably need it when you gig/rehearse with a band.
 
#4
If you want to play with a loud drummer, and guitars, with no PA support, you do need at least 250-500 watts.

Let me tell you about my behringer experience:
I bought a 4x10 combo for $500. One speaker blew within a week. Another one three weeks later. I did not abuse the amp. Volume was never above 4 or 5, and I don't use crazy EQ settings. I had a gig coming up, and a 4x10 combo (now a bulky 2x10 combo) wasn't enough, so I searched for a cheap second cab to use with it until I could get a better head/different cab. The only one I could afford at the time I was a behringer 1x15.
I hated my tone, and I just last week finally demoted that combo to a table...

I wasted $700 on Behringer stuff, I feel that it is poor quality and your money would best be spent elsewhere. Look into some cheap used stuff, and get a nice head and a cab. You'll like it alot better.
 
#6
Ok, this is really helpful. Gives me an idea of what I'm looking for here. But I am really new at this game so maybe someone can answer some stupid questions here.
So what is the difference between a head and a cab opposed to a combo. Is there any significant advantage to either??

I haven't been playing for a very long time and my current bass is somewhat of a beginner's instrument. So I suppose any amp I am gonna buy is likely going to be more expensive than the bass I am gonna hook up to it.

edit: So do you think a 100 watt ampeg like that is gonna cut it? Or the 120 watt GK for that matter??
 
#8
Actually money is not a big issue here. The thing is that I am just getting started so I don't know if I want to spend 100's of $ on a big amp.
Which brings me to another question. If I were to buy a quality amp, how much would it decrease in value?
Say, if I were to buy a $1000 dollar amp of some high quality brand, how much would it be worth in a year or two? Considering I won't be carrying it around to gigs etc. so it won't have damage on the exterior.
 
#9
With a head and a cab you can add or remove different parts as you want. If you like your speakers, but don't like your head, you get a new head. If you like your head, but your speakers aren't cutting it, you either replace your speakers or add more.

With a combo you're stuck with the whole thing. Some combos will take an extension speaker if you need more volume, but often if you want to upgrade you have to start from scratch. The advantages of combo amps is they tend to be a little bit cheaper (depending on brand), and are easier to move around.
 
#10
It's gonna be rough finding anything louder than 150 quality (read: not Behringer) watts for less than $500. Also consider that certain companies are more conservative and more generous with their wattage ratings than other companies. GK tends to be conservative (somewhat louder than what they list their wattage at), and Ampeg tends to be generous, but only on some amps (like the B2RE).

This one here looks like fun, if you were considering Ashdown. 300+ watts for $499: Link Removed

edit: well shoot, if price isn't a big deal go this route:
Link Removed
And a 4-ohm version of this: http://www.avatarspeakers.com/b212.htm
 
#11
zerotonine said:
So what is the difference between a head and a cab opposed to a combo. Is there any significant advantage to either??
Click to expand...

The advantage to a seperate cab/amp head vs. a combo is that the pieces are modular. If you want to upgrade the cabinet or add an additional cabinet, an amp head would give you that flexibility. If your cabinets are nice, but you'd like to upgrade your amp, no problem.

The advantage of the combo amp is in ease of set up and transport.

If you are in a loud stage/rehearsal setup, a separate cab/head would be recommended of around 300 watts minimum (100 watts minimum if tube power). If you are in a more moderate volume group, the smaller, lower power combo amp would do you just fine.
 
#12
Head & cab: The amplifier (head) is in a separate box from the speaker(s) (cab)
Pros: More versatile, can upgrade one at a time, unlimited power potential
Cons: More boxes to carry, takes up more space

Combo: The amplifier is in the same box as the speaker(s)
Pros: Only one box to carry, takes up less space
Cons: Less versatile, difficult to upgrade amp or speaker seperately, limited power potential

Is a 100 watt Ampeg combo or a 120 GK combo gonna cut it?
Not in my opinion. Either is very adequate for practicing alone. You may also get drowned out in a band rehearsal setting if your double-kick drummer is very loud - and they usually are. Don't even think of using either of these for a gig if there is no PA support. If there is PA support, the audience will be hearing most of your bass amplified through the PA system and you will be using your amp only to be heard on stage by yourself and the other band members. If your amp is loud enough for band rehearsal, it may also be loud enough for a gig with PA support. But if your bass is not going to be amplified through the PA at your gigs, you will definitely not have enough power for a gig with a double-kicking drummer.

IMHO and IME, of course.
 
#13
zerotonine said:
If I were to buy a quality amp, how much would it decrease in value?
Say, if I were to buy a $1000 dollar amp of some high quality brand, how much would it be worth in a year or two? Considering I won't be carrying it around to gigs etc. so it won't have damage on the exterior.
Click to expand...

Usually used gear is worth about half what you paid new. You can always check ebay or TB classifieds to see what certain gear is fetching on the used market.

I recommend buying quality used gear of popular brand names, then when you go to sell you'll lose very little value or maybe even break even.
 
#14
There is someone on the board currently selling a Peavey 210TVX for $175. Good deal for a good box.

As for an amp, I can't see spending $1000 or more for one, although many people on this board have spent twice that amount. Personally I would look for a used Peavey Tour series amp. You should be able to find a used 700 for about $400, and a 450 for less.

For $600 you should be able to get a good sounding, reasonably loud, dependable rig. Later on you can add another cabinet.

As for Behringer, I have never had a problem with any of their stuff. I currently have a VBass Pro that is gigged nearly every weekend for a couple of years. Other than the tuner sucks (and always has) it is a good peice of gear.
 
#15
While I'm inclined to tell you to aim for that 200W mark, that 100W Ampeg is a beast of an amp. I saw the bassist for the Gospel choir at UNC using one, and he kept up just fine with a loud drummer and 50 loud singers. Not sure how it would sit in the mix with guitars.

For sound I'd say Ampeg, but for a good sound/price compromise I'm inclined to steer you toward this GK
Link Removed

As far as how much will a particular amp be worth used, it's hard to say without looking at specific examples of a used amp selling price. There will be a significant drop when you "drive it off the lot" so to speak, but some amps hold their value more than others.

If you were looking used (and you should) the Ampeg SVT 3pro would be perfect for you, and you can usually pick up a 4x10 or a 1x15 for $200 or less
 
#16
A dude I know has one of the ultrabass 300 watt heads and ran it through an old Acoustic 2x15 cab. I always liked the tone he got out of it. I've been considering the 450 watt ultrabass head (BX4500H). There are some online right now for real cheap. I'd be using it to run a 4x10 and a 1x18 and I figure that the 225 watts into each cab would be more than enough to get as loud as I'd need to be. As far as I can remember, this guy never had any problems with his head aside from it getting rumbled off of his 2x15 cab. haha

But there's my limited knowledge of Behringer stuff. I've rarely heard good things about their cabs though.
 
#18
You've all really helped me so far, thanks for that!

Are there any compatibility issues when connecting a head to a cab? Is there some way I can see if they will work together or not??

So far I think I will try to get a second hand head and cab. I'll have to give the specifics some more thought though.
 
#19
Just say no to Behringer. I work at a retail music store and I am forced to see these things constantly come back, either for repair or to trade in. You get what you pay for. Save your money and buy something nice.
 
#20
Used amplifier gear, regardless of the brand or model, typically sells for 1/2 to 2/3 of the new price, assuming it works as well as new and doesn't have significant damage. If it sits in your bedroom for 2 years (and looks like it) maybe you can get 2/3 of new price when you sell it. If it is gigged every night for 2 years (and looks like it) maybe you will only get 1/2 of new price when you sell it.

Most of us, as we move from bedroom playing to band rehearsals to full-scale gigging, upgrade our amplifier setups and/or buy additional amps, heads and cabinets. Some guys have an at-home practice amp, a with-the-band practice amp (or rig), a small-gig rig and a large-gig rig. You can easily see how the increased versatility of a separate head and cabinet(s) makes it easier to put together different rigs for different purposes.
 

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