To compress, or not to compress, that is the question.

[iliachulsky]

Hi all, so here's my opinion:

Unless you use a compressor pedal to get a specific sound, in my opinion, you should not use a compressor.
More often than not I see great bass players with crappy live sound because they compress unnececery, ussually reasoning that it's to keep the bass at a constant level.

The first problem I see with that is that it takes away from your dynamics, you can do SO MUCH with your fingers, and a compressor if not properly used, takes that away from you..
the second major problem is that the sound tech will always put a compressor on the bass anyways, so if the signal he gets is already compressed, he will compress it further making the bass much less felt and much less clear.

What is your take on this?

 

[cnltb]

I recently mixed a song..well am still in the process.
Just yesterday I put a tiny bit of multi compression on it and it cleaned the whole thing up a lot!

 

[jazzsoul]

If you use a good compressor, it will contribute to your sound.

I use the ebs mulit comp and it works great!

 

[FretNoMore]

Anything "if not properly used" can be a negative.
(Though I wonder who you think decides what's "proper"?)

Anything used "to achieve a certain sound" can be a positive.

Sounds sort of self evident really, is there a point I'm missing here?

 

[iliachulsky]

Well yeah it's kind of self evident, you got me

I used to use a Boss limiter(it's basicly a compressor) constatly live, until it broke and I was forced to play without it, and I noticed that not only that I like my sound more but that the sound guys enjoy working with me more and setup my bass sound really quickly.

 

[iliachulsky]

I recently mixed a song..well am still in the process.
Just yesterday I put a tiny bit of multi compression on it and it cleaned the whole thing up a lot!

I'm talking about live usage.

 

[cnltb]

I'm talking about live usage.

Ah ok. I have not felt the need for live compression at my end so far since the soundguy does that if needed.

 

[iliachulsky]

Exactly! sometimes I even see bass players use a compression pedal(I know one guy who uses 3 at the same time), than they have a compressor on the amp, and after all that compression the soundguy compresses it from the board...
Needless to say it sounds like crap, and I'm being nice..

 

[Lazylion]

...it takes away from your dynamics, you can do SO MUCH with your fingers, and a compressor if not properly used, takes that away from you...

This is why I never use my amp's onboard compression. I wind up beating my plucking fingers to death trying to get the uncompressed sound I'm used to. As far as sound men go, they are going to do whatever they're going to do. I don't worry about that, I have no control over it anyway.

 

[FretNoMore]

Exactly! sometimes I even see bass players use a compression pedal(I know one guy who uses 3 at the same time), than they have a compressor on the amp, and after all that compression the soundguy compresses it from the board...
Needless to say it sounds like crap, and I'm being nice..

But maybe the soundguy shouldn't compress the signal if it is already compressed ... it's not necessarily the bass player that is wrong in that case. Maybe the compressor on my pedalboard gives me a different sound than the compressor in the FOH mixer, should I then turn it off and let the soundguy compress?

 

[FretNoMore]

This is why I never use my amp's onboard compression. I wind up beating my plucking fingers to death trying to get the uncompressed sound I'm used to. As far as sound men go, they are going to do whatever they're going to do. I don't worry about that, I have no control over it anyway.

You have as much control as you can get ... I suggest you try talking with the soundguy and discuss what you want done to your sound. You're hiring him, not the other way around.

 

[cnltb]

Exactly! sometimes I even see bass players use a compression pedal(I know one guy who uses 3 at the same time), than they have a compressor on the amp, and after all that compression the soundguy compresses it from the board...
Needless to say it sounds like crap, and I'm being nice..

How good of you! ;-)

I'd use compression only if I had an octave behind it for it to improve tracking.

 

[iliachulsky]

But maybe the soundguy shouldn't compress the signal if it is already compressed ... it's not necessarily the bass player that is wrong in that case. Maybe the compressor on my pedalboard gives me a different sound than the compressor in the FOH mixer, should I then turn it off and let the soundguy compress?

Unless your band got a designated soundguy, you'll have a hard time convincing the soundguy not to compress your bass, since he has the intrest of the venue and not yours. So as a bass player you can make yourself sound better by not using compression, of course it's only my opinion.

 

[FretNoMore]

I have no problem having a conversation with soundguys. If he compresses the bass out of habit without even listening and checking whether the compression is necessary or not, then he's not really competent. If I explain the bass is already compressed then of course he should take my signal as is, at least try it at sound check and see if it works. In addition, we often play smaller places where there is no compression on the FOH board, another scenario where I have to deal with my own sound, including compression if I want that.

Just my opinion, but I'd rather try this method than automatically assume the soundguy is not going to work with me.

Sorry to be so difficult, I just want to say there is more than one way of looking at this.

 

[iliachulsky]

You're not difficult at all

You made a good argument, I'll refer to it if someday I'll decide I want to use a compressor.

 

[ddnidd1]

A compressor is just another tool. Like all tools there are widely varying degrees of quality.

And most people, understandably, tend to pay as little as possible for an effect. Consequently, most of the compressors you see on pedal boards are pretty low quality. They tend to negatively affect the sound. They do compress but they sound like crap.

Additionally, a compressor is the most difficult effect to understand and adjust correctly. Frankly, the majority of users are relatively clueless on how to correctly adjust the various parameters of a compressor that has all of the standard controls - attack, release, ratio, threshold, makeup gain, knee, etc.

This is also one reason why you see compressors with just two or three knobs to simplify the adjustments for users who don't fully understand the interaction of all of these parameters. Or in the case of many amps with compression, just a single knob.

A high quality, high performance compressor that is adjusted correctly can definitely enhance the sound - albeit relatively subtle in most cases.

 

[jimfist]

^^^^

Or in the case of my favorite Swiss Army Knife compressor, the Empirical Labs EL8 Distressor, a good quality compressor can be used to add retro-type tube distortion, tape saturation, and in ways that capture a real old school vibe, which can be very nice indeed. The Distressor also acts great as a traditional "transparent" compressor if that's what you want. Not many people willing to lay out the cash for a single channel of EL8, but IMHO it's a wonderful piece of gear for bass and lots of other sources. JMHO. As was said, comps of all types are tools, nothing more, nothing less. Used properly and to obtain a specific result, they are a beautiful thing!

 

[Mvilmany]

A compressor is just another tool. Like all tools there are widely varying degrees of quality.

And most people, understandably, tend to pay as little as possible for an effect. Consequently, most of the compressors you see on pedal boards are pretty low quality. They tend to negatively affect the sound. They do compress but they sound like crap.

Additionally, a compressor is the most difficult effect to understand and adjust correctly. Frankly, the majority of users are relatively clueless on how to correctly adjust the various parameters of a compressor that has all of the standard controls - attack, release, ratio, threshold, makeup gain, knee, etc.

This is also one reason why you see compressors with just two or three knobs to simplify the adjustments for users who don't fully understand the interaction of all of these parameters. Or in the case of many amps with compression, just a single knob.

A high quality, high performance compressor that is adjusted correctly can definitely enhance the sound - albeit relatively subtlety in most cases.

I agree. Most bassists who don't understand how a compressor works often set it as a limiter which smashes the sound. Some bassists decide that the compressor isn't doing anything positive for them before actually using it live or in a mix. Live and in a mix are where you actually see the intended results of the compressor.

I use a compressor in my chain even though we have one in the (PA) mains as well, because my dynamics are different then the other things coming out of the mains.

I'd suggest to those new to compression to think of it as a sound reinforcement tool rather than an effect.

 

[teleharmonium]

As others have said, using something poorly is not an indictment of using it at all.

I would argue that when it comes to bass guitar, pretty much all great sounds involve compression. It is unlikely you can name a recording that has no compression at all on the bass. Even if we're talking only about compression on the mix buss or applied during mastering. If you listen to recorded pop music of pretty much any kind, you are mostly hearing heavily compressed bass.

There is nothing wrong with using multiple compressors; it's an old studio trick and a good way to get more leveling without artifacts.
The compressors built into bass amps aren't nearly as good as what you find in a good studio, but the principle is the same.

You don't sacrifice your use of dynamics when you use compressors; you regulate what happens when you play steadily for your main sound, and you change the amount of difference in level that is required to exceed your typical volume range. On the other hand, you can play quieter, and the compressor is not doing anything when you are staying below the threshold (other than applying constant makeup gain, if that's how you have it set); there is no compromise in the minus side of your dynamics. With reasonable settings, you just push a bit harder than you would otherwise and you still get the volume increase. If you need a lot more room above your main volume level, then it's time to raise the threshold.

I play with an opto compressor that is always on. It has a slow attack; in the audience you wouldn't be able to tell that I was using it. Maybe you're only noticing compression when it is being used poorly ?

 

[FretNoMore]

There must something special about compressors that annoys people since this discussion comes up again and again. I don't see any other sound processing being debated so hotly (in terms of what is the "correct" use). Surely people are misusing/abusing other effects (chorus, dirt, filters, reverb, etc) just as much, if not more, but there is not the same amount of discussion about that.

Just an observation.