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To slap or not to slap/why I hate it
- Thread starter JAUQO III-X
- Start date
I don't hate it, per se, I just see it on the same level as sweep picking in guitar. Some people will practice for 3-4 years trying to get sweep picking down and when they finally get it, it's all they can do. There are MANY talented bassists who can do multiple techniques including slap, and that's applaudable, I just know that in high school all the "good" guitarists could sweep pick and all the "good" bassists could slap. I'd prefer to be a good guitarist/bassist who can quasi-sweep/slap and work on that stuff when the time comes.
The thing that annoys me about slapping (which may have been mentioned but I'm not wading through 16 pages to find out) is when you go to a music trade show, hey, even just a shop, but it's more annoying in the cacophony of a music show, is the umpteen kids asking to try out the lastest bit of kit and proceed to fire of 64th notes at 240bpm with their thumb and fingers.
Yes, it's impressive to an extent, have a gold star. But it gives you now indication to what the £5,000 instrument you've beat the crap out of actually sounds like.
Me, I plug it it and play a few long open notes and see how the notes develop.
I'll readily admit I'm not a good slapper, and I don't wish to devote half my life to become one either. But I can do it enough that I can throw the odd little bit in when needed and yes, to look cool. To me, it's far more impressive to play a steady groove and hold the music together, and throw in the odd flashy technique a couple of times in a gig (although I lean more toward tapping), and maybe a wink thrown in for good measure lol.
You come across as a much more professional musician, you play what the song requires and still have your moment in the spotlight that says, "actually, this guy is rather good", without stealing it from the rest of the band and boring people. If you want to do that, go solo. If you play in a band, sit back and let everyone have their moment,
I think the same can be said about all musicians on both points. Guitarist, drummers, singers etc. Yeah, the technique is great, but play me something I can enjoy without getting bored or a migraine.
Yes, it's impressive to an extent, have a gold star. But it gives you now indication to what the £5,000 instrument you've beat the crap out of actually sounds like.
Me, I plug it it and play a few long open notes and see how the notes develop.
I'll readily admit I'm not a good slapper, and I don't wish to devote half my life to become one either. But I can do it enough that I can throw the odd little bit in when needed and yes, to look cool. To me, it's far more impressive to play a steady groove and hold the music together, and throw in the odd flashy technique a couple of times in a gig (although I lean more toward tapping), and maybe a wink thrown in for good measure lol.
You come across as a much more professional musician, you play what the song requires and still have your moment in the spotlight that says, "actually, this guy is rather good", without stealing it from the rest of the band and boring people. If you want to do that, go solo. If you play in a band, sit back and let everyone have their moment,
I think the same can be said about all musicians on both points. Guitarist, drummers, singers etc. Yeah, the technique is great, but play me something I can enjoy without getting bored or a migraine.
The problem is that way too much slapping already falls into the "gratuitous" category, i.e. players doing it mostly for the novelty effect...and because they can. It's more of the "music as athletic competition" syndrome - practiced especially by noobs and wannabees - that equates sheer athleticism (i.e. number of beats per minute, etc.) with musical prowess...rather than with such factors as taste, groove, and artistic vision.
As I recall from back in the day, slap really started with such funksters as Larry Graham and Bootsy Collins, continuing on with cats like Bernard Edwards and T.M. Stevens. Since then, it's found its way into numerous other genres (i.e. R&B, pop, nu-metal, etc.) - into some of which it fits, in others it doesn't.
Bottom line: If your music really calls for it, and you can integrate some slap into it in a way that's truly tasteful, go for it (whatever "tasteful" means to you)! But no one should feel the need to slap, simply because it's "expected".
Creative concept should generally determine technique - not the other way around...
MM
This is 100% my thoughts on it. I never use it because it just doesn't fit as well in what I'm doing (and since I have little to no need for it, I'm also not that good at it
). But when it's used tastefully in the right song or the right part of a song, I love it. That said, that it seems to me the majority of YouTube vids showcasing someone's bass playing are mostly slapping and popping... IMO it's become a bit overdone these days. I'd must rather see/hear someone laying down a great fingerstyle groove or digging in with some great tone.Brian
Studied it, Done it, Grew tired of it, Lost it.
It is without a doubt a use it or lose it technique, i used to amaze friends and clients of music stores to the point of making them buy instruments, by doing the less musical tricks i´ve learned so far, just speeding triplets, hammer off´s and chromatic/octave runs, i mean, it happened to me. When i was starting out, i almost bought a piece of crap because it´s owner slapped the heck out of it, i´m not bashing the technique, i totally respect the ones who use it, i just don´t see/hear myself these days doing the funny slap/pop routine because i consider it a bit of a cliche/80´s thing. Sometimes, when noodling around at home, i try it again and...instead of feeling somehow frustrated for failing at the attempt, i feel a bit embarrased and i laugh at myself a little.
Now, in the hands of an expert, i sure enjoy listening to it, but not for too long.
It is without a doubt a use it or lose it technique, i used to amaze friends and clients of music stores to the point of making them buy instruments, by doing the less musical tricks i´ve learned so far, just speeding triplets, hammer off´s and chromatic/octave runs, i mean, it happened to me. When i was starting out, i almost bought a piece of crap because it´s owner slapped the heck out of it, i´m not bashing the technique, i totally respect the ones who use it, i just don´t see/hear myself these days doing the funny slap/pop routine because i consider it a bit of a cliche/80´s thing. Sometimes, when noodling around at home, i try it again and...instead of feeling somehow frustrated for failing at the attempt, i feel a bit embarrased and i laugh at myself a little.
Now, in the hands of an expert, i sure enjoy listening to it, but not for too long.
not a slap fan, never have been. To put it simply, I just don't like the way it sounds, regardless of what kinda music I hear it in. Even when listening to the funkiest stuff imaginable, I think the bands would sound way better if they'd stop making the bass chirp and twitter like a mad squirrel.
Just a little dig on Marcus Miller: On the "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" book, he plays a version on Stevie Wonder's "I was made to love her". Does anyone else realize that he starts slapping toward the end of the song? So inappropriate considering this was one of the reasons Jamerson stopped getting gigs when he moved to LA from Detroit; because he refused to slap when all the producers were telling him to.
Just needed to point that out.
Just needed to point that out.
Yep - it's there and I was never really bothered by it - Miller's piece is amongst the best of the entire project, slap part and all. Geddy Lee and John Entwistle's contribution clearly feature the use roundwound strings, which is also something Jamerson refused to use upon his move to LA.
In regard to the guys who contributed to "SITSOM", I don't think there's any disrespect on anybody's part. They paid homage to James using their own approach, sound, and techniques. IMO, the project would have been less enjoyable if every single player featured used a P-Bass with a mute, high action, and flatwounds.
Around the time that the "SITSOM" book was released, Marcus himself expressed the opinion that Jamerson's style was "too personal" to copy directly, which could explain his own approach to "I Was Made".
There was also much more to Jamerson's career downturn than a refusal to slap - many other first-call studio players in LA didn't slap at the time and still had busy careers.
20db Pad,
I should have mentioned it was a light hearted dig against Marcus. I just remember cringing the first time I heard the outro to that song with the slapping parts. Those were good points you mentioned though. Let's stop this discussion now before it turns into an all out Jamerson thread.
I should have mentioned it was a light hearted dig against Marcus. I just remember cringing the first time I heard the outro to that song with the slapping parts. Those were good points you mentioned though. Let's stop this discussion now before it turns into an all out Jamerson thread.
- Mar 2, 2006
- 332
- 6
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Sadowsky Basses & Dean Markley Strings
Great example of the technique that Jauqo linked here
is the guy who is misinterpreted a lot in this forum, but if you notice he barely uses the thumb. He uses finger flicks, taps, chords, harmonics, pops, fret noises, but barely uses the thumb, hmmmm. He is also playing quotes from the same piece as the guy above, and wrote it by the way but notice how it sounds different? Now how can this be interpreted as "ghetto"? Especially the part near the end where he plays the melody from "Amazing Grace" and reharmonizes it? Not ghetto at all if interpreted wrong. And by the way.....what is wrong with ghetto anyway? And the last question...what is ghetto?
is the guy who is misinterpreted a lot in this forum, but if you notice he barely uses the thumb. He uses finger flicks, taps, chords, harmonics, pops, fret noises, but barely uses the thumb, hmmmm. He is also playing quotes from the same piece as the guy above, and wrote it by the way but notice how it sounds different? Now how can this be interpreted as "ghetto"? Especially the part near the end where he plays the melody from "Amazing Grace" and reharmonizes it? Not ghetto at all if interpreted wrong. And by the way.....what is wrong with ghetto anyway? And the last question...what is ghetto?
I love to slap!I've been doing it since Larry Graham,popped on the scene with both,"Sly and the Family Stone",AND "Graham Central Station".Someone here,made an excellent point,....if I may paraphrase:"When done tastefully,and appropriately,it can be a beautiful thing!"Incessant slapping,however,can be quite annoying,and rather boring.I often get students who can slap,and they're always eager to show me what they've got,however,where I like to challenge them is here,with a very simple question:"Can you make it musical?"As a bassist,and musician,having chops is in fact,neccessary where becoming a professional musician,is concerned,....the more"tools"you have in your"toolbox",so to speak,the greater your potential becomes in,meeting this objective.However,having chops for"chops'sake",CAN,and often,DOES kill a career!It's okay to slap,I say,...just be sure that,you're doing it for a"musical"reason,...not because"you can"! Peace!
We play 50 songs a night, none of them fits a slap.
However halfway during the show, we play Long Train Running, and after the break where the guitar intro-riff starts again, I play a 30 second slap-solo.
That said, after the gig , there are always quite some people coming over to me all exited saying they loved what I did there, and that they wished I did more.
Now, that is where you want your audience to be, when they want more, but you don't. Let them hunger for me!
We have quite a few regulars/fans, who follow us and know the set. When Long Train is due, they get all exited and start moving through the house to get closer to me.
After my solo is done I get cheered and applauded, and the fans (all woman, mind you) move back to the good looking singer and guitar player who are across the stage
However halfway during the show, we play Long Train Running, and after the break where the guitar intro-riff starts again, I play a 30 second slap-solo.
That said, after the gig , there are always quite some people coming over to me all exited saying they loved what I did there, and that they wished I did more.
Now, that is where you want your audience to be, when they want more, but you don't. Let them hunger for me!
We have quite a few regulars/fans, who follow us and know the set. When Long Train is due, they get all exited and start moving through the house to get closer to me.
After my solo is done I get cheered and applauded, and the fans (all woman, mind you) move back to the good looking singer and guitar player who are across the stage
I love it, and wish I could learn to do it. My bf slaps very good trying to show me..but I still am not getting it!
but I like it when its done well.
