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tobias experience
- Thread starter Soma666
- Start date
Yes, we all understand by now. Michael Tobias and his band of elves made 950 basses *as Gibson employees*. Then they left. So was bass #1274 a Gibson bass? Yes. Was it personally made by Mike Tobias? Yes. Which is more important? Beats me. I'd make the radical suggestion of playing it and making up your mind on the basis of the instrument itself. Imagine that!
Meanwhile, I took my life in my hands and ordered a custom bass from the Arkansas factory. It is simply as high quality as it is possible for a bass to be, in wood selection, sound, feel, craftsmanship. Yes, you can pay more. You can get Bigger Name Luthiers to add status value. You can get different sounds (it has custom Bartolini pickups, but they sound like Bartolinis, clearly). You can get different neck shapes, and different anything you want. What you cannot get is better. They don't come any better.
Collectors and Players don't always see things the same way.
However, its better to try to remain respectful of different viewpoints, don't you all think?
However, its better to try to remain respectful of different viewpoints, don't you all think?
Yup - that's the only thing which was important to me, as Mike said in his email :
"however, it was NOT built in Nashville and WAS built my original crew. You got a good one Enjoy it!"
This has gotten really nutty since I last checked in. Bruce IMO, you have a real Tobias, made by Mike and the crew. I don't care who the "Holding Company" was at the time. The one I returned MADE BY GIBSON, was a real piece of work. Hey I'm glad you guys have found some good ones, and Mike is still going to make his rent if you by Gibsons. Gibson CS couldn't even tell me where to get strings for the one I had. They couldn't answer a single question on their own product. I've still not seen that type of string, the only thing close is LaBella's. I was stunned. That's why it went back for refund instead of replacement.
If knocking MTD makes you feel better about what you have. Fine. There are plenty who disagree w/ you. Check out the post in the threads that have been going for months.
I will repeat, I'm very glad your happy and have found some good ones. The fact you have a Bass that makes you happy is what's important. It shouldn't take anything away from you that Bruce is happy his was made by Mike.
Jeez, I'm about to sell my Les Paul after this. I play my PRS's most of the time anyhow.
If knocking MTD makes you feel better about what you have. Fine. There are plenty who disagree w/ you. Check out the post in the threads that have been going for months.
I will repeat, I'm very glad your happy and have found some good ones. The fact you have a Bass that makes you happy is what's important. It shouldn't take anything away from you that Bruce is happy his was made by Mike.
Jeez, I'm about to sell my Les Paul after this. I play my PRS's most of the time anyhow.
The state of "Pre-Gibson" seems to me be the part where Mike Tobias and his crew made the basses, not the part where Gibson owned Tobias and where they didn't. As long as I know Mike Tobias made the bass, I'm happy because not only do I know that it was handmade, but I also know that it was made a professional, someone you can trust.
As I stated before: Gibson Tobias' are still sweet instruments and beat other type of factory-made basses such as Ibanez and Yamaha but when you compare to the "old" Tobias there is no challenge IMO. But whatever, if you enjoy playing the bass you currently have, who cares? I've tried both Gibson and "Pre-Gibson" and I preferred the latter. As luck turned out, I got one of the true pre-Gibson, and I love it.
As I stated before: Gibson Tobias' are still sweet instruments and beat other type of factory-made basses such as Ibanez and Yamaha but when you compare to the "old" Tobias there is no challenge IMO. But whatever, if you enjoy playing the bass you currently have, who cares? I've tried both Gibson and "Pre-Gibson" and I preferred the latter. As luck turned out, I got one of the true pre-Gibson, and I love it.
I played one yesterday at a Chicago music store. This is a newer model of the classic four-string. I own a Jeff Berlin Signature and a 4-string fretless Pedulla. This bass is better than both. Very versatile electronics which did not sound edgey like typical active products. The neck was lightning fast and dead-on in tune. They are asking $2699 for it, and I likely will buy it later this week. I was impressed with the quaility of the workmanship. I don't know the serial number, but will ascertain that before I buy it. I appreciate these threads from all of you -- it helped me in the decision-making process.
Yes, but I think a more important question is, what is the quality of this particular bass? You know, I'm talking about the bass. Not the luthier, not his employer, not the name of any corporation. The bass itself. I personally wouldn't be happy with a bass made by God if it didn't sound and feel right, and/or wasn't built very well. But as others have said here in other contexts, if knowing your bass has lots of status value turns your crank, great.
What the serial number actually does, is provides some degree of confidence that a bass you have never played will be worth what it costs, or whether it will be a ripoff. If you're buying one from e-bay or over the net from someone, that serial number can give you a warm fuzzy feeling, or cause for genuine concern, depending on what it is. But once you have the bass in hour hands, and can examine it and play it, then what difference does the serial number make any more? You KNOW what kind of instrument it is. Do you really need to read the serial number to "judge" the quality of the bass? Why not use the bass itself? You know, the woods and the craftsmanship, the neck, the sound, stuff like that?
This has also been my experience. The aha! experience, the mental breakthrough, is to somehow struggle past the "It's Gibson, reject-without-thinking" mindset. At that point, you're suddenly able to appreciate what you have in your hands.
I too called Gibson customer support. The people I talked to had *never heard* of Tobias basses. They were surprised to find out Gibson makes them. It's a very low-quantity operation, I'd estimate maybe 10 a week, most of which are Growlers anyway. IMO, it's nearly criminal that Gibson is totally neglecting such a valuable resource, and alienating potential customers. Corporate Gibson is a deaf, arrogant outfit, nearly impossible to deal with. The guys at the factory must really be steamed.
Or proper use of the language.
Obviously there is something threatening with the name Gibson, even though Mike himself refers to this bass as a Gibson Tobias. Maybe Mike has the ability to see that it could be one he built and a Gibson at the same time? Could one man really possess such complexity? Should we really still call them Fenders even though Leo is dead and no longer makes them? (like he ever built basses any way )But I can see this has fallen into the I need to be offended to protect myself category so I'll just be happy that me and Mike Tobias agree what they are and not be frightened by the name Gibson. We've seen from Fender collectors that the label can be more important than the bass, to each his own I guess.
As a long time fan and friend of Tobias since they first did custom work for me in 1985 I'll say in my experience that I've never seen anything less than perfect from Mike whether from the Hollywood shop or the Gibson shop in Burbank. Once Gibson moved their production to Nashville I've seen highly varied quality. I currently also own 2 Gibson/Tobias'.
And you are so right. This is probably the explanation why signature equipment sell so good, because people are told they are good, not because they actually believe it is. "If I play my biggest influence's signature bass, then maybe I will become as good as him!" = this was me 4 years ago when I went into a Dream Theater phase and wanted 6-string bass and tried John Myungs signature. I was greatly disappointed because I didn't like it all. Then I got a tip from a music teacher I had a couple of years later that I should try out Tobias, which I did, and I absolutely love it.
You should always try out something before you buy it. I took a train trip for 4 hours (x2, back and forth) to try out the current Tobias I had, just to see if it was right for me.
No he doesn't - he says on his website that the company was taken over by Gibson, but continued to make basses in exactly the same way up to serial No 2044.
There is a very clear distinction between basses made by Mike's own crew - up to 2,044!
And basses made after that, which were actually made by Gibson and not Mike's crew!
It's pretty clear to every person I have ever talked to about this (apart from one...
)He only sees numbers. He's already backpedaling in his last post. He said there was quality in Tobias basses from the Gibson shop in Burbank, yet he's been bashing Gibson Tobias basses all this time? Sounds like contradiction after contradiction to me.
hi there,
here is the newsgroup where you can find all info about Tobias basses:
Link Removed
New Tobias seems to be good, but not as good as Mike built before selling the brand to Gibson.
Always try before buy!
here is the newsgroup where you can find all info about Tobias basses:
Link Removed
New Tobias seems to be good, but not as good as Mike built before selling the brand to Gibson.
Always try before buy!
Well, we're talking about different things here. I agree that Nashville-made Tobias basses after Mike left have a very spotty reputation - some are fine, but many are not. I've heard (I don't know from personal experience) that when Gibson started up the factory in Arkansas, production there also faced a learning curve. But new (within the last couple years) basses from Arkansas seem to be as good as anything available anywhere. So far, I've heard two reports about these: the people who didn't "know" Gibsons suck are extremely impressed and delighted. Those who pick up one of these new Tobias basses expecting it to be terrible tend to find them OK, no actual flaws, you understand, top quality hardware, electronics, woods, etc. But...well, you know, it's a Gibson, so it's, well, it's a Gibson. It can't be a good instrument, because Gibson customer support doesn't know what kind of strings it has! ANYTHING, it seems, to force-fit the bass to the reputation. But this is the nature of a reputation - hard to build, easy to blow.Penguin said:
This wasn't the way I read it, but interpretations vary. Mike Tobias says that he had a contractual deal with Gibson - he would work for and with Gibson during the handover process, with the goal of training Gibson people, getting the necessary machinery programmed, working on wood selection, doing inspections, and generally getting Gibson up to speed.Bruce Lindfield said:
As we have seen, Mike stayed with Gibson during this handover for a total of 950 basses. It certainly was NOT the case that Mike personally made every single one of those 950 basses, after which he and his people walked out the door and Gibson hired replacement warm bodies the next day! Instead, there was a gradual process during which Mike and his crew became progressively less involved, and the Gibson people took over. The "magic #2044" story just doesn't hold up.
Nonetheless, if there are any BAD basses up through #2044, I have not heard of them. After that, there were some VERY bad basses made. Also some very good ones.
At least one of the morals of this thread is that, for serial numbers through #2044 and for serial numbers after about 10,000, this recommendation is less forceful. In between, it's imperative. Knowledge of the history is important.Georges Abitbol said:
Still, I was confident when I ordered a custom bass from the factory, that I'd get something worth what I was paying for it, and there's no question I did. There's a good chance that I'll do it again sometime in the future. Gibson IMO has now got it down.
Of course, MTD still has Mike Tobias at the helm, and their top-line instruments are equally unimpeachable. I'd be equally fully confident of getting what I want ordering from MTD, and not be overly concerned that I hadn't played it first.
No he doesn't - he says on his website that the company was taken over by Gibson, but continued to make basses in exactly the same way up to serial No 2044.
There is a very clear distinction between basses made by Mike's own crew - up to 2,044!
And basses made after that, which were actually made by Gibson and not Mike's crew!
It's pretty clear to every person I have ever talked to about this (apart from one...
Mike Tobias says
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
I'll not try to get you to read his words again, I'm afraid you won't be able to take it. What a weird thing to be so afraid of
For Christ sake lad stop making up stuff. And if you have nothing to offer besides personal attacks maybe you could spend more time in church instead doing something nice?
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