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Tone Hammer position in chain/live setting

Discussion in 'Effects [BG]' started by P-oddz, Mar 30, 2013.

  1. P-oddz

    P-oddz Supporting Member

    Apr 7, 2009
    Milwaukee, WI
    I've been using my Tone Hammer last in my chain for years now, essentially as an EQ last in line. I find (personally) that I like my pedal's tones better feeding into the TH, as opposed to the TH EQ being fed into my pedals.

    So... this leads me to a slight dilemma/second guessing of my setup now. In the past, for live shows, my amp has always been equipped with an on-board DI. 9 times out of 10 the sound guy just used that signal and it was fine. I'm now playing an Orange AD200b which is not equipped with a DI. My plan is to purchase a nice mic and setup and insist on that being used as often as possible and eventually I'd like to purchase a higher end DI like the REDDI. Until then - I'm not made of money and I probably have half of my solution under my nose. I know I can just take the line from my TH (post EQ, including my pedals before it), but I'm wondering if this is going to be the best sounding option?

    So my question to you guys is how you use your Tone Hammers.

    Where is it at in position on your board? If it's before your pedal chain, and you've sent it to the house - are you sending pre or post EQ? If it is last in the chain, have you had good luck with the tone? Also post EQ?

    Additionally I've read that the AGS circuitry acts as a speaker sim and I'm still a little confused by this (or have I already discovered this, being my preference to send my pedals INTO my Tone Hammer).

    Any light that can be shed on the subject would be much appreciated...
  2. The TH AGS does have a speaker sim, but it doesn't mean it will sound like your cab. I think your best option after a mic is the Palmer PD09. It has a speaker sim and connects to your speaker out so you also gain the sound of your preamp and poweramp in your DI signal.

    However if you stick with the TH then yes it should go at the end with the AGS engaged.
  3. The AGS circuit isn't really speaker sim, it's more of a gain/overdrive circuit with a little additional EQ.

    I recent switched over to a B7K from the Tone Hammer, but the Hammer won't be going anywhere... I'll be moving it to my second board to replace a PBDDI. I always had the TH at the end of my chain as well, for exactly the same reason... Sounds better to me at the end, and anything after it in the chain won't be DI'd to the board.

    Pre/Post EQ... Kind of depends. A lot of sound guys will tell you they'll want a Pre-EQ signal, but I tend to leave it set to Post EQ.

    As for mic'ing a cab: I'd much rather mic of course, but I can't remember the last time a sound guy made that an option. At all of my gigs in the recent few years, the sound guy either just hands me an XLR cable or I've been ampless anyway, so I've just gone with it. Adding a mic to the bass cab is just one more feedback point, and sound guys don't want to mess with it.

    As to whether the AGS circuit in the Hammer should or shouldn't be on, that's up to you and what sounds best to your ears. I always left it off.

  4. The AGS rolls off the lows and highs like a speaker would. Turning it on but setting the gain low you can get a speaker sim with no dirt from the TH if you wanted to.
  5. Semantics I guess. To me, "rolls off lows and highs" is something I could do with EQ knobs. When I think of "speaker sim," I think of pedals like any of the Sansamps or modeling stuff in some of the multi-effect pedals. :D

    Regardless, I never used AGS on the Hammer.

    I forgot to mention... if it matters, I also run my B7K at the end of my chain, as I do with any preamp on my boards. Just sounds better to me having them at the end.

  6. P-oddz

    P-oddz Supporting Member

    Apr 7, 2009
    Milwaukee, WI
    I always have the AGS engaged with it dialed in between 10 and 11 o'clock. I'm guessing that I've already been aware (subconsciously) of its speaker sim-esque capability then, being that I prefer a sweet spot there before it gets too much hair on my signal. Problem is, the times I've tried to DI my Tone Hammer with effects into a DAW, I've never really been too pleased with the tone, and always opted for a VT Bass to be thrown at the end of the signal. There may have been a speaker sim type thing happening, but apparently I didn't care for the Aguilar tone solo(?)

    Are you currently using the PDI-09 (or have in the past)? I'm familiar with it, having discussed live sound in length in other threads, but have not really seen more than one person with personal experience using it. Especially for the purpose of trying to send a pushed tube amp plus dirt/fuzz pedal tone to translate to the house. I've heard clips of it on a normal setting (bright seemed too harsh and mellow seemed too dull) that sounded pretty decent, but every clip is tailored for guitar, so it's hard to tell how it would translate.
  7. P-oddz

    P-oddz Supporting Member

    Apr 7, 2009
    Milwaukee, WI
    Are you playing with a fairly clean signal (no effect pedals)? I'm still curious how it will react with a fuzz and some dirt pedals sent into it direct.
  8. HunterBurgan4Me


    Mar 6, 2010
    I wish there were more sound techs who used mics for bass amps but I guess it just causes them more problems and the plebs in the crowd won't notice anyway
  9. I have not used the palmer but its freq response curves look to be right where you would want them.
  10. Bakkster_Man


    Jan 15, 2006
    I used to use my TH at the front of my chain with AGS off to buffer my passive bass, and to shape the tone into the rest of my chain, especially to reduce the 'splat' of my BBM.

    Eublet's AGS primer revolutionized the pedal for me, I now use it at the end of my chain with AGS on just below getting hair with an active bass. Since I run direct 100% of the time, it functions the same way a amp/cab would otherwise for me.

    I wouldn't place it anywhere but the end of my chain if I'm using AGS (maybe before a compressor, though I prefer after) to maintain the highs and lows in the rest of my pedals, and I wouldn't use it at the end of my chain if AGS was off unless I was running through an amp/cab or a modeller because that rolloff of the highs is important (IMO) to a natural sounding bass. If I had a VT, I would use that at the end to shape an amp modeled tone and use the TH at the front or near it for tone shaping into my chain, or with AGS on as a dirt pedal.

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