• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join freeLog in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Too much bottom end

But if the rule is that sound newbies are bad, we've been gifted with an exception to the rule.
+1

A good friend who started sound with us in the 70's and 80's can now be seen at a number of "3 big name band" shows behind the board(Heart, Journey, Cheap Trick being the last one IIRC). We BOTH started from scratch and learned/taught each other tons with books, learning from pro-shows(Showco, Claire Bros, etc), local wizards in New Orleans at that time(Peter with Pace Sound), AND experimenting.

The "pay the pro for on the job training" sounds great IF you can get the rookie to acknowledge and understand that he/she is LEARNING how to duplicate what your band sounds like on the CD, in the studio, and/or on stage. I've worked with a "know it all" with wooden ears before in a church setting and wound up quitting so it can be EXTREMELY frustrating if there is no learning going on.

Michelob_64:
With an Epi T-Bird + 15 + 4x10(I've experience with all 3), try this. Put your compressor back in the loop for fastest attack/release you can set it on(speaker protection and a little smoothing) but make sure you can't hear it doing it's job. If you use roundwounds, set your TB with the front pickup wide open and the rear pickup on 8 or 9(you get cancellation with both on 10), and the tone between 5 and 10. Try(but experiment) this on the amp: bass flat(depends on what your 15 cab can do), mids slight boost, treble slight boost. Run a DI PRE-EQ(I suggest a Countryman or other high quality DI box since your amp's DI seems to be lacking) to the board for your "dry/bass signal". It will most likely have the highs cut a good bit, mids cut some, bass flat or boosted. This signal makes the PA subs punch folks in the stomach. Mic the 10's with the mic about halfway between the edge of the cone and the edge of the dust cover. This will be your dirt/grit/punch/bite that is picked up from this mic to the board. This signal is a bassist's ability to cut thru in a mix and be "un-muddy". It is blended with the DI to give a summary sound that should be VERY CLOSE to what your stage sound is but yet fits in the mix of the band. For the mic, a Sennheiser MD421 works great but an SM57 can suffice....whatever your budget/preference. The mic angle and EXACT location will depend on your cabinet/speaker sound and the mic used. Experiment at normal(SHOW) volumes with this somehow. Once you KNOW where the mic goes and angle(if needed), remember it or some mark it with tape or perm. marker(for roadie-proofing).

The MAIN purpose of your rig is a stage monitor for you and band members. It does not need to be so loud as to interfere with the PA bass. With 2 lines(dry and mic) to the PA with two specific functions, getting a consistent bass sound is much easier.

Warning: Murphy will show up and throw sick rooms/venues at you that sound like crap no matter what you do. For those times, you can get extreme(experiment & learn) with EQ settings and play with cabinet placement(esp. with hard walls/corners directly behind your rig).

Hope this helps & apologies for length. I've been where you are before.

:bassist:
 
The engineer I want to hook him up with, runs a real time analyzer on a laptop to monitor the sound and make adjustments.

While it might look cool to have a laptop with a RTA, this rarely has much to do with mixing. Laptops and RTA´s are mostly for tuning the system to the room, and I´d be suspicious if the FOH guy eyed the laptop constantly. Instead, he should be concentrating to mixing Your sound, that´s an "ear-thing", hardly a "sight-thing". He even might even be having a game of solitaire...

However, RTA´s are good for checking feedback-frequencies, SPL etc., and system software is good for checking if the system is performing as it should, but all in all, I find them a bit distracting. In my 15+ years of doing FOH professionally, I´ve never needed a laptop for RTA.

My point is, make Your guy use his ears, not his eyes.
 
While it might look cool to have a laptop with a RTA, this rarely has much to do with mixing. Laptops and RTA´s are mostly for tuning the system to the room, and I´d be suspicious if the FOH guy eyed the laptop constantly. Instead, he should be concentrating to mixing Your sound, that´s an "ear-thing", hardly a "sight-thing". He even might even be having a game of solitaire...

However, RTA´s are good for checking feedback-frequencies, SPL etc., and system software is good for checking if the system is performing as it should, but all in all, I find them a bit distracting. In my 15+ years of doing FOH professionally, I´ve never needed a laptop for RTA.

My point is, make Your guy use his ears, not his eyes.

Very true, Tom doesn't mix based on the RTA, but he does monitor it to see if any changes need to be made during the night, such as more or less people in the bar, etc. What I really meant was that at least an RTA would help my sound guy "Phil" shape the sound to the room rather than "one sound fits all." Tom the sound guy has excellent ears when it comes to sound, I think the RTA just confirms his suspicions more than anything else.

But for my guy “Phil” it might give him base starting point to help him mix the room better which is really what we need him to do. We often hear from bar owners & patrons “you’re too loud” but Phil doesn’t listen to them. Lastly, if my ears are off and all of this is just my perception, the visual would help me see how my sound was affecting the room.

All in all, I’m not downing “Phil” he’s doing the best with what he has to work with, but like me there are things we both could try to make it better for both of us. I think the problems are a combo of issues between us and yes we do need to get on the same page. I’ve gotten a lot of good advise which is really what I wanted in the first place. I’m easy to get along with, I just wanted some input on how I can better serve up to the board what he needs to push to the FOH.
 

Latest posts