Tracing influential lineage

[Kmay]

I've been working on my chops here lately and been listening very intently to some music I have previously learned, to find there are tons of "gems" buried within the song.

I don't know how everyone else feels, but playing straight songs and roots is required, but the fills and passing lines that a bassist uses really lets you step into their soul and heart as a musician. Their personality is in the fills and passing tones MORE than the majority of song. At least, that's how I feel.

So, me understanding that everyone has an idol or someone that influenced them in their playing I was curious how far back I [we] could trace popular bassist down.

How do I say this?

Who were the idols or my idols (or yours)? And who was those idols...idols? Etc...

I wonder if it all goes back to an Alpha bassist? Lol!

I suppose if you are really knowledgeable on styles you could say "Yeah, he uses a lot of the same licks as [famous guy]".

My idols at the moment are:

(I apologize for not knowing their names...yes, you cab shoot me)

Aerosmith bassist
Ozzy's bassist (whomever did crazy train)
Duff (G n R)
Iron Maiden bassist
Whoever recorded with hendrix! Love his/her stuff.

Mostly rock guys...
I'm open to looking into others.

 

[Basshappi]

We are all a product of our various influences, mostly within the context of the musical styles we prefer. As we mature as musicians many of us start to look outside of our own styles, incorporate aspects of them into our own and thus become influenced by the players associated within them.

One thing that I have noticed over recent years, and which causes me some degree of concern, is the lack of familiararity with the past amoungst the younger generaton of musicians. I mean no offense when I state that your post is an example of this.

When I started playing bass there was no internet or MTV (or even cable television for that matter). We only knew about our bass heros from magazine interviews and album liner notes. A usual question asked in interviews was some variation of "who were your influences". From their answers we would learn of other players/bands we didn't know or hadn't paid attention to and would seek them out. We studied the influences of our influence's influences!

The other thing that is different is what I think of as the "apprentice system". As young players we wanted to be out in the scene meeting and jamming with anyone and everyone we could. Of particular interest was to get to hang and sit in with the older, more experienced and established musicians because this was a means to improve as a player and "prove your chops" to those that could give you a leg up in the scene. We called this "paying our dues" and this was critical if one wanted to run with the big dogs as it seperated the serious players from the wanna-be's. Being in this type of environment exposed you to a whole lot of information about the history of music and widened ones listening experiences and perceptions of how different musical styles interrelated and influenced each other. We also learned the importance of listening to players of instruments other than our own.

This provided a very good foundation so that when you approached a new musical situation you could orient quickly and know what to play and how to play it. As you gained experience and developed your own voice on the instrument you progressed beyound "competence" and could bring "your thing" into a situation while still playing appropriately for the style of music being played. Ultimately, when you began writing your own music it allowed you to better avoid being unintentually derivitive because you were well versed in what had come before.

Holy crap, I just rambled out a novel, my apologies!
I hope something in this is useful to your topic or at least entertaining.

 

[Muddslide]

Aerosmith bassist
Ozzy's bassist (whomever did crazy train)
Duff (G n R)
Iron Maiden bassist
Whoever recorded with hendrix! Love his/her stuff.

Mostly rock guys...
I'm open to looking into others.

AEROSMITH- Tom Hamilton
OZZY- Rudy Sarzo
IRON MAIDEN- Steve Harris
HENDRIX- Noel Redding (w/ The Experience) then Billy Cox (Band of Gypsies)

I'm never comfortable recommending players to people because if they are disappointed I get blamed for having crap taste!

I would say, though, that if you like Hamilton's work with Aerosmith, another rocking band from the 70s--Alice Cooper--had a great bassist in Dennis Dunaway.

 

[JimK]

Dennis Dunaway would be an excellent player for the OP to check out.
In addition to the obvious hits, some deeper Dunaway cuts-
"Long Way To Go"
"Caught In A Dream"
"Halo Of Flies"
"Dead Babies"
"Gutter Cat"
"Blue Turk"
"Public Animal #9"
"Raped And Freezin'"
"Generation Landslide"
"Crazy Little Child"

...the material from their 1st two albums
is a bit more raw..
but still worth checking out.

 

[Kmay]

the lack of familiararity with the past amoungst the younger generaton of musicians. I mean no offense when I state that your post is an example of this.

I think I'm pretty familiar with MY past. I may be a lot younger than you (29), so my past is the 80's and 90's. Not the 60's or 70's. So what you consider the past is a different perspective than what I do.

We studied the influences of our influence's influences!

This is what I'm trying to accomplish with the post. Is to dig deeper into my influences.

The other thing that is different is what I think of as the "apprentice system". As young players we wanted to be out in the scene meeting and jamming with anyone and everyone we could. Of particular interest was to get to hang and sit in with the older, more experienced and established musicians because this was a means to improve as a player and "prove your chops" to those that could give you a leg up in the scene. We called this "paying our dues" and this was critical if one wanted to run with the big dogs as it seperated the serious players from the wanna-be's. Being in this type of environment exposed you to a whole lot of information about the history of music and widened ones listening experiences and perceptions of how different musical styles interrelated and influenced each other. We also learned the importance of listening to players of instruments other than our own

I feel I have definitely, at the very minimum, started this thing several years ago. I didn't spend a lot of time in my beginning years listening to albums and learning licks and songs by famous bands. I was guided to learn theory and know the fretboard, because if I did, I could play with anyone and be competent much quicker. Seemed to work out. I was playing out (and getting paid) within the first year I started playing. However, I didn't know the bass line to "Crazy Train" the band told me the key and the changes and I made it up. I am just now getting into really listening to some of these songs I have been playing for years and pick apart the lines within them.

 

[Kmay]

Dennis Dunaway would be an excellent player for the OP to check out.
In addition to the obvious hits, some deeper Dunaway cuts-
"Long Way To Go"
"Caught In A Dream"
"Halo Of Flies"
"Dead Babies"
"Gutter Cat"
"Blue Turk"
"Public Animal #9"
"Raped And Freezin'"
"Generation Landslide"
"Crazy Little Child"

...the material from their 1st two albums
is a bit more raw..
but still worth checking out.

Never heard of him. I will definitely check him out. Thanks!

 

[Kmay]

I would say, though, that if you like Hamilton's work with Aerosmith, another rocking band from the 70s--Alice Cooper--had a great bassist in Dennis Dunaway

Will do.

 

[Muddslide]

Dennis Dunaway would be an excellent player for the OP to check out.
In addition to the obvious hits, some deeper Dunaway cuts-
"Long Way To Go"
"Caught In A Dream"
"Halo Of Flies"
"Dead Babies"
"Gutter Cat"
"Blue Turk"
"Public Animal #9"
"Raped And Freezin'"
"Generation Landslide"
"Crazy Little Child"

...the material from their 1st two albums
is a bit more raw..
but still worth checking out.

Yeah, "Pretties for You" is unlike any other AC album, IMO. More psychedelic, but album #2 Easy Action is great.

Really, I love all of them up through Muscle of Love.

I also dig Cooper's "Welcome to My Nightmare."

I read somewhere that Dunaway was behind a lot of the theatrics and shock fuel of Alice's live shows. That approach and many of the acts they did in performance were his ideas supposedly.

 

[JimK]

...that's what I have read, too. DD always seemed like the quiet one; he was the artsy one that was into the Avant Garde...guess he decided to take a back seat once the Alice character took off.

Pretties For You: I only picked that one up within the past decade. Had wanted it for long time but it was difficult to find there for awhile.
They had a short lived affiliation with Zappa on this debut (+ Easy Action)...IIRC, Zappa wanted them to rename their band to Alice Cookies (a mix of music/comedy).
The debut LP woulda been sold as individual records in cookie tins or something like that.

I also like Muscle Of Love; funny that many considered it a failure. It was a Gold album & I just looked, it hit #10 on the Charts.

 

[JimK]

Back to the topic on hand...


Back in '72, my guy was John Paul Jones (LZ & Deep Purple were "my" bands; Glover, though, never floated my boat).
I also liked guys like Bruce, Entwistle, Gary Thain...JPJ, however, sounded more attainable to my young ears.
In '76 or so, Chuck Rainey & Will Lee were "my" guys; I also liked Jaco & Stanley...Rainey/Lee sounded a whole lot more attainable.

Anyway, you have "your" guy...so explore his catalog, read about him, find out who/what he listened to, etc. Be a student. As it turns out, JPJ (& Will Lee) liked '60s Motown & that translates to James Jamerson (the Alpha bassist for many). Rainey was a Jamerson contemporary...still, there's probably some pollination goin' on there, too.
Do not be surprised if some guys cite a drummer or a saxophonist as an influence.

 

[Muddslide]

Pretties For You: I only picked that one up within the past decade. Had wanted it for long time but it was difficult to find there for awhile.
They had a short lived affiliation with Zappa on this debut (+ Easy Action)...IIRC, Zappa wanted them to rename their band to Alice Cookies (a mix of music/comedy).

Yes, if I remember right the first two AC albums were on Zappa's "Straight" label. At the time (I think) he had two labels: Straight and Bizarre...

The mighty, incredible, indelible "Trout Mask Replica" by Capt. Beefheart & The Magic Band was originally released by Zappa as well.

 

[JimK]

Yes, if I remember right the first two AC albums were on Zappa's "Straight" label. At the time (I think) he had two labels: Straight and Bizarre...

Have you seen to docu, ZAPPA: FROM STRAIGHT TO BIZARRE?
If you have Amazon Prime, it's free. Worth seeing, IMO.

 

[Basshappi]

I definitely agree about Jamerson. So many of the early rock players were influenced by him (and Motown and Blues music in general) that a serious study of his work is beneficial. I remember so many interviews in which players mentioned "listening to Motown songs" (because nobody knew who played on the records) were a typical answer to the "influences" question.

JimK makes a great point about studying your favorite bassplayers catalog. This can be a lot of fun and very informative especially if they have a long career in which you can hear how they develop and refine their style over the years. Really dissecting their lines to determine what specifically defines their style can be very educational.

Kmay, I really did not intend to "speak down to you" with my initial response, and if I came across that way I apologize.
I simply got to thinking about how I was influenced as a young player coming up and rambled on about it. Us "old guys" do that sometimes.

 

[Muddslide]

I definitely agree about Jamerson. So many of the early rock players were influenced by him (and Motown and Blues music in general) that a serious study of his work is beneficial. I remember so many interviews in which players mentioned "listening to Motown songs" (because nobody knew who played on the records) were a typical answer to the "influences" question.

#1

Kmay, I really did not intend to "speak down to you" with my initial response, and if I came across that way I apologize.
I simply got to thinking about how I was influenced as a young player coming up and rambled on about it. Us "old guys" do that sometimes.

Rambling? At least you stayed on topic...my next post, I was going to start talking about adult undergarments...

 

[Basshappi]

Geritol!