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Tuning UP three half steps
- Thread starter Greenman72
- Start date
FullumMusic
Commercial User
- Oct 13, 2022
- 2,010
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- Disclosures
- Audio/Music software developer, contracted with a company you've heard of and deving my own stuff.
I genuinely don't mean to say this with any malice:
You have a 4 string bass that's normally strung with EADG strings, but you put on BEAD strings instead of EADG strings, and then you want to tune the BEAD strings to EADG instead of just using EADG strings in the first place?
@Greenman72 I see that you're getting another bass already, so like you said, it's all academic now. My reply would have been to use a capo or just use the proper strings for the tuning... or get another bass with EADG strings. But you're already getting another bass, which is always the right answer. Always just get another bass!
You have a 4 string bass that's normally strung with EADG strings, but you put on BEAD strings instead of EADG strings, and then you want to tune the BEAD strings to EADG instead of just using EADG strings in the first place?
@Greenman72 I see that you're getting another bass already, so like you said, it's all academic now. My reply would have been to use a capo or just use the proper strings for the tuning... or get another bass with EADG strings. But you're already getting another bass, which is always the right answer. Always just get another bass!
OK. It's actually more complicated than that.
I am a CPA and an investment advisor. I own my own firm. Therefore, at work, I have several "Premium" basses that look really cool and cost a lot of money. And yes, I do play them at work. That's where the aforementioned Esh Stinger is (along with the 1980 Aria SB-60 and the Ibanez SR2600 (that was given to me by TB's own late, great Michael Stanley. RIP, my friend.)
At home, I have two Yamaha TRBX's. One of them is tuned to B-standard (with 130's). One of them is tuned to C#-standard (with 120's).
I also have a Sire Marcus Miller Jazz bass and a really cheap beginner bass with a PJ pickup. (Regular tuning, regular strings.)
I don't really love the Jazz bass (because I play with a pick, and it just doesn't sound right), but I want to keep it, in case I learn how to use it. And I wanted to upgrade my cheap beginner bass to either a TRBX or a BB.
I wanted to compare the sound of the TRBX (in standard tuning) to the BB (in standard tuning), so I could decide if my next bass should be a TRBX or a BB. So I wanted the easiest possible route to listen to the TRBX (in standard tuning) for comparison. I just didn't know if you could tighten the strings that much without damaging the instrument.
Then, when I learned that you could simply tune up three steps without damaging the instrument, it made it a really easy decision. Buy the BB, and if you want to play the TRBX in standard tuning, then just tune it up to standard tuning. Now you have the best of all possible worlds.
The only problem--the strings on the TRBX will be too tight to play properly. Now I'll have to go buy another TRBX that I can keep in standard tuning. (You know--just in case you need soapbars instead of PJ.)
Sorry if I totally confused anybody.
I am a CPA and an investment advisor. I own my own firm. Therefore, at work, I have several "Premium" basses that look really cool and cost a lot of money. And yes, I do play them at work. That's where the aforementioned Esh Stinger is (along with the 1980 Aria SB-60 and the Ibanez SR2600 (that was given to me by TB's own late, great Michael Stanley. RIP, my friend.)
At home, I have two Yamaha TRBX's. One of them is tuned to B-standard (with 130's). One of them is tuned to C#-standard (with 120's).
I also have a Sire Marcus Miller Jazz bass and a really cheap beginner bass with a PJ pickup. (Regular tuning, regular strings.)
I don't really love the Jazz bass (because I play with a pick, and it just doesn't sound right), but I want to keep it, in case I learn how to use it. And I wanted to upgrade my cheap beginner bass to either a TRBX or a BB.
I wanted to compare the sound of the TRBX (in standard tuning) to the BB (in standard tuning), so I could decide if my next bass should be a TRBX or a BB. So I wanted the easiest possible route to listen to the TRBX (in standard tuning) for comparison. I just didn't know if you could tighten the strings that much without damaging the instrument.
Then, when I learned that you could simply tune up three steps without damaging the instrument, it made it a really easy decision. Buy the BB, and if you want to play the TRBX in standard tuning, then just tune it up to standard tuning. Now you have the best of all possible worlds.
The only problem--the strings on the TRBX will be too tight to play properly. Now I'll have to go buy another TRBX that I can keep in standard tuning. (You know--just in case you need soapbars instead of PJ.)
Sorry if I totally confused anybody.
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Am I the oddball in thinking that putting a capo on a bass just looks peculiar? I did it once in a show, just to get a rise out of the guitar players... but never thought of doing it again.
It's weird, but I've done it on occasion, due to my technique limitations on electric (I'm really an upright player who owns an electric, and I almost never practice electric). It works fine. I think the capo I have is a banjo capo but I'm not sure.
If it works, it works. Honestly, only other musicians would even notice -- and if the result is seen as desirable, they'll be doing it too.
Me, I do everything in standard these days ... but it really depends on the material being performed, and what's required to perform it. In the past I've tried different tunings, but nowadays just use a pitch-changer if I need those lower notes. Each player has to decide what challenges to face and how to face them.
I sometimes have similar requirements as I like to play songs on the same frets as well do live tuned to Eb. So I have one crap bass that gets tuned as needed up or down, mostly up from 1/2 step to 1 1/2 steps. Bass isn't broken after many years, String height and tension are all that really changes
No issues tuning the EXL160BT's up from C# standard to E standard. D'addario assumes E standard is a given anyway with the strings. The tension specs are based on E standard.
D'addario EXL160BT
E standard tuning tension
E1/.120/49.2lbf
A1/.090/51lbf
D2/.067/51lbf
G2.050/50.3.lbf
Total Tension= 201lbf
C# standard tuning
C#1/.120/34.78lbf
F#1/.090/36.06lbf
B1/.067/36.06lbf
E2/.050/35.56lbf
Total tension=142.46lbf
The most you would have to do by tuning up is tighten the truss rod some and due to less amplitude of the tenser stings you may like lowering the action a little.
By way of a tension comparison, and calm any fears, Steve Harris subjects his basses to 253lbf in E standard via Roto 77's.
Bottom line. Don't sweat it
D'addario EXL160BT
E standard tuning tension
E1/.120/49.2lbf
A1/.090/51lbf
D2/.067/51lbf
G2.050/50.3.lbf
Total Tension= 201lbf
C# standard tuning
C#1/.120/34.78lbf
F#1/.090/36.06lbf
B1/.067/36.06lbf
E2/.050/35.56lbf
Total tension=142.46lbf
The most you would have to do by tuning up is tighten the truss rod some and due to less amplitude of the tenser stings you may like lowering the action a little.
By way of a tension comparison, and calm any fears, Steve Harris subjects his basses to 253lbf in E standard via Roto 77's.
Bottom line. Don't sweat it
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Tuning up 3 half steps will increase the tension on your strings 41 percent. Your bass will definitely need a truss rod tightening, and it won't be a simple tweak. A lot of early Fenders have neck problems, in part because the strings they used where higher tension than what most folks use nowadays. Over the years, that extra tension often causes problems. So, as a short term thing, well, you gotta get the thing up to even try this. Long term, I'd definitely get lighter strings.
A 120 is a very big string for an E. It's too skinny for use as a B (too little tension). C sharp, OK.
A 120 is a very big string for an E. It's too skinny for use as a B (too little tension). C sharp, OK.
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Sten Harris has a tech that tends to his basses to keep the necks straight. If one of Steve's basses develops a neck issue, he hands it to someone, and they give him another one. Steve lives in a different world than the rest of us in terms of his gear.
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Fair enuff. But did you see that the EXL160BT are actually for E standard by default. And the extra tension compared to D'addario standard 45-105 nickel rounds is 26.71 lbf. Or compared to XL Chromes 45-105's only an extra 5.24lbf. Does anyone get the shakes putting on a set of Chromes. Na. 201lbf is nothing to get worked up about and certainly not bass wrecking, no matter how many times u tune up from tunings lower than E. Or tune back down again
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So you're saying that, theoretically, I could use these strings for everything from B to E? Just adjust the neck as needed?
Not really. 120 is a bit too flop ville for a B. It would only have 27ish lbf of tension. Passable as C# as Micguy mentioned. Around the same tension as a 100 nickel round tuned to E.
As far as rod adjustments or action, well you won't be doing that on the fly. Adjustment needs a bit of time to settle.
Have you thought of getting gauges more appropriate for BEAD and just staying at that tuning if the B works ok for you (can be hit and miss for a variety of reasons regarding a good B). Would involve maybe some nut work and at the bridge too depending on bridge design
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Theoretically, sure. I happily use a .120 NPS roundwound for B0 on a 30" scale on a bass vi style instrument; I use a .110 flatwound for B0 on a 34" scale fretless instrument; most players would find the tension on those too low, while I find the tension of anything more than a .105 at E1 excessively high. I think most players would find a .120 about perfect for C#1 (as you seem to have found, yourself), but I don't think anyone would find a .120 unplayable anywhere between B0 and E1 on a 34" scale instrument.
I have my two 28.6" scale basses, a 4 string reverse P and a 5 string bridge J, tuned 3 half steps up, to G# standard tuning, and I use gauge .080 - .062 - .046 - .036 - 0,26 strings, but that is from E standard tuning, so an octave higher, so not sure how that is going to help you.
Personally I couldn't play with that kind of tension on the strings, but I do tend to play lightly with fingers, and use relatively thin and flexible picks, when playing with a pick.
I personally prefer a balanced gauge .095 to .040 set of strings for E standard tuning on a 4 string bass, regardless of scale length (as the shorter vibrating length on shorter scale basses will make the strings be/feel relatively less flexible/stiffer in comparison).
I don't think you will damage the neck though, just likely going to feel uncomfortable to play.
Personally I couldn't play with that kind of tension on the strings, but I do tend to play lightly with fingers, and use relatively thin and flexible picks, when playing with a pick.
I personally prefer a balanced gauge .095 to .040 set of strings for E standard tuning on a 4 string bass, regardless of scale length (as the shorter vibrating length on shorter scale basses will make the strings be/feel relatively less flexible/stiffer in comparison).
I don't think you will damage the neck though, just likely going to feel uncomfortable to play.
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Just because you can get away with something doesn't mean it's good idea. I'm giving you the opinion of someone who does a lot of setups (and related stuff, like heat treating necks, fret levels, etc.) for people. The more tension you put on the neck, the more business guys like me get (trying to counteract the effects of lots of tension - if that's your goal, go for it.
Thinks of me like the dentist that actually helps people try to avoid cavities, not the guy who is happy to fill them. Tension is candy - too much, you can get problems over time.
