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Turning scales into basslines.....?

#21
Jinro said:
....... I have a question regarding arpeggios......what's the difference between arpeggios, chord tones, and triads? They all seem the same to me....
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They all address chords and how we use them.

Arpeggios are the notes of a chord played one note at a time. The rhythm guitar can strum the chord playing all notes at the same time, or he can play the chord as an arpeggio one note at a time.

Chord tones are the notes of a chord, i.e. the tones of the chord. A Cmaj7 chord tones are the C, E, G & B notes.
http://www.smithfowler.org/music/Chord_Formulas.htm

Triads are a three note chord, thus the name. A C7 chord (C-E-G-Bb) is a four note chord, thus is not a triad. Look up Chord in the dictionary below.

Here is a music dictionary. Virginia Tech Multimedia Music Dictionary Be sure to check out the Appendix section. Lot of good information.
 
#22
Jinro said:
AKA "Nurturing creativity (or lack thereof)".

Granted, I've only been playing bass for a year, and in a church band at that, so it's all just root chords and memorizing simple basslines, but I can't, for the life of me, create anything good for fills, etc.

I don't know all scales, but I do know Major/Minor, Blues, arpeggios, and I can play the Minor Pent. all over the neck, but I still can't do squat with them. I've tried reverse-engineering basslines from styles I like, only to end up saying "how did he come up with this"?

On occasion I can create something for maybe one or two measures, but that's it. Most of the time when I try to create something on the fly it's just discombobulated noise. It seems that I can "play" music on bass, but I can't "create" music on bass. I don't have a story to tell--I don't have basslines grooving in my head, etc.

So what did all of the pro bassits here do to advance beyond the root-chord rut?
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It's takes a lot longer than a year of playing to sound good and to know what sounds good before you play it. Expect to spend years working on this and it will pay off, there are no short cuts, you have to do the work but you can study with someone which will put you on the right track.
 
#25
They all address chords and how we use them.

Arpeggios are the notes of a chord played one note at a time. The rhythm guitar can strum the chord playing all notes at the same time, or he can play the chord as an arpeggio one note at a time.

Chord tones are the notes of a chord, i.e. the tones of the chord. A Cmaj7 chord tones are the C, E, G & B notes.
http://www.smithfowler.org/music/Chord_Formulas.htm

Triads are a three note chord, thus the name. A C7 chord (C-E-G-Bb) is a four note chord, thus is not a triad. Look up Chord in the dictionary below.

Here is a music dictionary. Virginia Tech Multimedia Music Dictionary
Click to expand...

But a "chord tone" of, say C, is C E G, correct? While a C "triad" would also be C E G. An arpeggio of C would also be C E G (and maybe the octave C). That's where I'm confused.....they appear to be the same :P
 
#26
Jinro said:
But a "chord tone" of, say C, is C E G, correct? While a C "triad" would also be C E G. An arpeggio of C would also be C E G (and maybe the octave C). That's where I'm confused.....they appear to be the same :P
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Sometimes when things are the same one can become confused, patience grasshopper. :D
 
#27
Originally Posted by Jinro ..... But a "chord tone" of, say C, is C E G, correct? While a C "triad" would also be C E G. An arpeggio of C would also be C E G (and maybe the octave C). That's where I'm confused.....they appear to be the same :P
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That is correct. They are the same.

We use the word chord to mean a grouping of two or more notes from a specific scale.

We use the word chord tone to identify those notes that are in the chord.

And we use the word arpeggio to specify how that chord is to be played, i.e. one note at a time.

We try to make it hard. If it was easy everybody would be a musician.
roflmao.gif
 
#30
Jinro said:
I'll look at plugging drum tabs in Guitar Pro. I have a band score with 29-some-odd songs from one of my favorite bands, but the drum notation in the book doesn't match the notation on Guitar Pro, so I gave up trying to plug those in when I tried.
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Yeah, I know. Drum notation looks nothing like how you produce drum sounds in Guitar Pro/ Tux Guitar, so I understand your frustration. The problem is that, despite the option there that turns a regular pitched instrument into percussion, the way percussion is notated and tabbed is still identical to that of a pitched instrument (namely, the guitar/ bass). That's why each drum has a "tabbed pitch", so to speak. The only thing that doesn't matter is the string you tab a drum/cymbal in, because it sounds the same as long as you get the "pitch" right.

So, the thing you can do with your book is to go through each song you want to plug into Guitar Pro/ Tux Guitar, and code each drum with a number. In drum notation, each symbol usually represents one type of drum.

So for instance, you code the basic drums and cymbals like such:

1 - kick/ bass
2 - snare
3 - hi hat
4 - crash cymbal
5 - Ride cymbal
6 - floor tom
7 - tom tom 1
8 - tom tom 2
etc.

When you know what symbol in the drum notation represents what drum, you can write the code number below the notation.

And when you have a part (or even whole song) "coded", you have to convert your own coding to that of the drum "tabbed pitches" Guitar Pro/ Tux Guitar, which are (as far as I can tell in Tux Guitar):

36 - kick/ bass
38 - snare
42 - hi hat
41 - floor tom
43 - tom tom 1
45 - tom tom 2
46 - ride cymbal
49 - crash cymbal

Good news is that you already have the rhythmic pattern in the drum notation of your book, so what you have to do is copy that pattern in Guitar Pro, using the "codes"or "tabbed pitches" of Guitar Pro/ Tux Guitar, which you write on the tab part (in any string, but you can arbitrarily assign a string to, say, E string for kick only, A for snare only, D for cymbals, G for toms, B and upper E for anything else).

I hope this big explanation doesn't confuse you more...
 
#34
Back in the old days -- 1920's -- band members would pass among themselves scraps of paper with the lyrics and chords that are to be used in a song.

They took that and faked a tune. Thus fake chord sheet music.

Later on if the treble clef was added this became a lead sheet as it had the treble clef - and the lead instruments used the treble clef for their melody notes.

As neither have the bass clef the bass would take the chords shown and build the bass line he/she thinks works best for this song.

Very seldom will the band give you a piece of sheet music with the bass clef on it. So it's up to you to build your own bass lines.
 
#35
chaosMK said:
I wouldnt stress too much about it. One year is not too far into it and things take time, just learn and practice as much as you can.

Creativity aside, there isn't anything wrong with doing simple stuff if you do it well.
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+1 +1 +1.

Also, try to hear the fill in your head first and then figure out how to play what's in your head . I play simple on purpose and I look for open spots and then fill some of them(not all of them and not the majority of them either). I do a run (fill) sometimes if there are no vocals happening on a part. Alot of times, even then, I don't because it makes the song sound tighter going into the next phrase. Fret not, bro ! (pun intended). LOL !
 
#36
Jinro said:
Only partly confusing. Coding it with the numbers seems to be the easiest method. I think GuitarPro's coding is the same as Tux Guitar's.
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Ups, sorry. I'm not very good at explain things such as this without a visual aid, which would be a great way of showing how it works. It is really not hard to do, but it is hard to explain. Besides, English is my second language so I often screw up sentences.

It may help to substitute what I referred to as "tabbed pitches" with "tabbed frets". So, for instance, 36 for a kick drum means that what would normally be a (hypothetical) 36th fret on a guitar would sound, according to Guitar Pro, as a kick drum in a percussion track, and thus tabbed as such. And, again, it doesn't matter if you place that "36th fret" on the E, A or B strings, it sounds the same.
 
#37
jeff arddun said:
Chord charts are used to "fake" tunes you don't know. A "fake sheet" is a chord chart. Also commonly called a lead sheet.

A whole book of them is a Fake Book...and from that you get a "Real" Book.
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That sounds like fun: having the song played your own style. Well, what can I say about myself? I've played for only one year so I probably don't have a "style" yet. Still, it sounds fun.
 
#38
Also, try to hear the fill in your head first and then figure out how to play what's in your head . I play simple on purpose and I look for open spots and then fill some of them(not all of them and not the majority of them either).
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I've actually tried that once or twice, and found that everything that goes through my head is monotone; there's no distinguishable pitches. Some people have told me to hum or sing the line/fill, but I can't do that either.
 
#39
Jinro said:
I've actually tried that once or twice, and found that everything that goes through my head is monotone; there's no distinguishable pitches. Some people have told me to hum or sing the line/fill, but I can't do that either.
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Then play by rote. Play what has been written. The songwriter has already harmonized the melody line and the chord line - having the correct chord in play to harmonize the melody at this point in the song. All you have to do is trust that the songwriter knew how to harmonize, i.e. knew what chords are needed. Then play chord tones of the chords used in the song. I know you are asking how.

Well, standard notation (treble and bass clef) will have everything you need. Harmony, movement and rhythm. However, finding standard notation bass clef on the song you want is sometime hard to come by. So we rely upon fake chord, lead sheet or tab. Fake chord and lead sheet give us the chord name and leave how we play the chord up to us. Tab - just tells us what intervals to play with no mention of the phrasing or rhythm. So, what's a guy to do?

No one in the band will be giving me bass tabs, but, I can count on them to have fake chord sheet music on the songs we will be playing. I rely upon fake chord and make my own bass lines. That seems to work best for the music I play.

  • Roots first and if I need something I'll add a 5th. Root on 1 and 5 on 3.
  • If I still need something I think about the 8 or 3. This starts filling up the 2 and 4 beat.
  • Still need something bring in the 7. About now you may start having something beyond root on 1 (8-b7-5-R)
  • Remembering major chords get natural threes and minor chords get b3. Maj7 chords get the natural 7 and dominant sevenths get a b7. Minor chords get a b7 also.
  • That leaves the 6, 2 & 4. The 6 is neutral help your self to 6's. The 2 & 4 work best as passing notes, i.e. don't spend a lot of time on them and do not end on them. Try R-2-3-5-6 that's the major pentatonic - this started as a scale string.
  • I don't go beyond 7ths. I leave the 9's, 11ths and 13ths to the melody instruments. That does not make it correct, just what I do.

That will give you harmonization and movement. Still need rhythm. Standard notation bass clef sheet music is the only sheet music that will help with rhythm - note duration. If you do not have that the correct rhythm is up to you. Sing the song under your breath, let the tune help with rhythm. One note per lyric word. Two syllable words get two notes. Or, follow the drums, if you have a drummer.

After this becomes comfortable - a year from now - I bet you will hear phrases and fills. Until then play by rote.
Have fun.
 
#40
Jinro said:
I've actually tried that once or twice, and found that everything that goes through my head is monotone; there's no distinguishable pitches. Some people have told me to hum or sing the line/fill, but I can't do that either.
Click to expand...

You have to put your 10,000 hours in, one you've done that, you see a big before and after difference. Right now, you're still in the "goo goo ga ga" stage of development.
 

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