Un-glue/un-mush/de-legato my notes!

[ba-dum-ba-dum]

In this video, he is talking about ghost notes, but I'm more interested in the "real" notes. In this part: (The Jaco-like thing)

When I play this (in particular, the parts with the same notes in succession), the notes go baaabaaa.... But his notes sound like ba. ba. - staccato. Its too fast to be left hand muting (lifting the fretting hand after each note) - I'm suspecting its a right/plucking hand technique that quickly mutes each note in quick succession (pluck with 1, mute with 2, pluck with 2 mute with 1 etc...)

Am I understanding this correctly? If so - unlearning years of just following though each stroke is going to be tough But I want that sound!

Any direction towards exercise specifically for this would appreciated, thank you!.

 

[31HZ]

It's funny that I've had to devote countless hours to make my playing more legato, and less automatically-staccato. Took a long time.

For you, I'd work on making the notes as short as possible, starting at a very slow tempo. If you're plucking with two fingers, the most common way is to get the "next" finger down on the string right after it's plucked.

 

[Wasnex]

Lot easier to diagnose if we can hear your playing and see your hand. There are lot's a of potential factors that are related.

Here is a personal observation, that may are may not be related.

When I first started playing bass guitar BG I adapted what I had learned on upright UB. I used anchored thumb and straight plucking fingers. My tone was very smooth and legato. Good for some things and not great for others. I struggled to get a really punchy sound.

I stayed with this approached most of my career. Late in my career my organization hired a young bassist with significantly more natural talent than I. His tone was punchier and more focused. Also he had more ability to shape notes and vary his tone.

I discussed plucking technique with him and observed his playing. He used arched plucking fingers.

I had tried using arched fingers a few times earlier in my career but it never seemed to work for me. My endurance seemed to really suffer when I used arched fingers. The ability to regularly observe a player with the type of tone I wanted inspired me to stick with it. Now I use primarily arched fingers and floating thumb.

I do still revert to straight fingers and/or anchored thumb for certain types of passages. Anchored thumb gives the hand more stability so certain type of fast patterns seem easier are more precise with anchored thumb. Over the years, this perceived advantage has gotten smaller.

The player in the video appears to leans towards straightish plucking fingers and anchored thumb. POTENTIAL CONTRIBITING FACTORS: He is playing pretty close the bridge, and appears to be playing an early MM bass, which tends to be a very punchy instrument IME. There is also some subtle muting going on.

 

[InhumanResource]

In this video, he is talking about ghost notes, but I'm more interested in the "real" notes. In this part: (The Jaco-like thing)

When I play this (in particular, the parts with the same notes in succession), the notes go baaabaaa.... But his notes sound like ba. ba. - staccato. Its too fast to be left hand muting (lifting the fretting hand after each note) - I'm suspecting its a right/plucking hand technique that quickly mutes each note in quick succession (pluck with 1, mute with 2, pluck with 2 mute with 1 etc...)

Am I understanding this correctly? If so - unlearning years of just following though each stroke is going to be tough But I want that sound!

Any direction towards exercise specifically for this would appreciated, thank you!.

Yep, it is right hand muting and likely the same as what you describe (or very similar). I don’t think you have to unlearn anything as follow-through is still good practice, but it’s also good practice to be intentional about muting and have a habit of touching everything not being played to avoid unwanted noise.

The trick is that this includes the string you are playing when you WANT it to stop. So, note length becomes a conscious choice vs a side effect of how you normally play.

 

[Bar Band Bassman]

IIRC, Rocco muted with his LEFT hand, typically (perhaps exclusively) fretting with index and middle finger, muting with ring and/or pinky.

BBB

 

[noahw1]

Right hand placement is also a factor. Playing near the bridge doesn’t allow the string to ring out as much, which is where the guy in the video is playing.

 

[wompwomp]

the guy in the video is muting with his fretting hand you can see him squeezing the live notes.

re: the right hand i use thumb-and-forefinger quite a lot, punchier than trad fingerstyle and naturally staccato.

 

[turcmic]

I prefer fretting hand muting in order to keep a steady right hand fingering. It’s not that hard to do with a little practice : just keep your fingers on the strings and release if you want stronger output. Also, as other mentioned, playing closer to the bridge helps with the clarity of the « released » notes.

Have fun!

 

[JonathanPDX]

A video of you playing would be the easiest way to identify how to improve your technique.

One exercise that can help is to pluck straight quarter or eighth notes with the right hand while placing your left hand over a single fret, preferably not a real strong harmonic node like the 7th or 12th fret. Then rather than focus on your right hand, you put all your attention on the left, and explore the entire range of left-hand pressure you can use to attenuate your sound. From no pressure at all (open string) to full pressure (a fretted note) there is a lot of space in between.

You can create heavily dead ghost notes that have almost no tonal quality, or use the technique that Victor Wooten uses often while thumping where you press down just hard enough to produce a slight fundamental, but not enough to get a fully fretted ringing tone.

Once you have started this exercise you can give yourself all sorts of different challenges, like mixing long notes, short notes, and ghost notes together in a pattern. Starting slow will help you ensure every note is the intended length and tone (IE ghost or not). It's easier to play fast when you can make mistakes and they fly by, but going slow will really make you focus on every single note and getting it exactly where you want it to be.

 

[andymac]

the guy in the video is muting with his fretting hand you can see him squeezing the live notes.

Like wompwomp, my guess is that this person is using left hand muting, lifting the hand slightly. It is totally possible to get it this fast with practice. The left hand lift becomes part of your motion of plucking the string. You've got to do it really intentionally for a bit. Go really slow, just one note, sync the mute with metronome. I find the toughest part is syncing the squeeze back down: you have to squeeze back down just before the pluck, so that you don't deaden the note, but not so much before that you wreck the mute. Once the motion gets into your fingers in slow mode, it's not that hard to speed it up.

It's a bit of personal preference, though, whether to do this fast muting with left hand or right hand. As 31 Hz says, for fast right hand muting, you still follow through, but

If you're plucking with two fingers, the most common way is to get the "next" finger down on the string right after it's plucked.

I personally find this really effective at slower speeds, but tough to do with consistency at this kind of speed. But some people are great at it. Maybe I need to take my own advice and intentionally practice this method for a while...

 

[wompwomp]

Like wompwomp, my guess is that this person is using left hand muting, lifting the hand slightly. It is totally possible to get it this fast with practice. The left hand lift becomes part of your motion of plucking the string. You've got to do it really intentionally for a bit.

YES. the left hand lift becomes part of the motion of plucking the string.

let's say it again: the left hand lift becomes part of the motion of plucking the string.

this is exactly right. think about the concept of la pompe in gypsy jazz, the left hand governs the length of the note / amount of staccato but it is still a function of the right hand attack. the left hand is co-playing rhythm, it's 'the pump' it is creating groove via staccato. how it works in the music from that vid is that the ghost notes give you the relief.

Go really slow, just one note, sync the mute with metronome. I find the toughest part is syncing the squeeze back down: you have to squeeze back down just before the pluck, so that you don't deaden the note, but not so much before that you wreck the mute. Once the motion gets into your fingers in slow mode, it's not that hard to speed it up.

imho start with your grooviest tempo and groove as hard as you can. once you get that take it where you want.

It's a bit of personal preference, though, whether to do this fast muting with left hand or right hand. As 31 Hz says, for fast right hand muting, you still follow through, but

I personally find this really effective at slower speeds, but tough to do with consistency at this kind of speed. But some people are great at it. Maybe I need to take my own advice and intentionally practice this method for a while...

in HS my first bassist wasn't converted from anything he started on the bass and he could do these catch-up mutes on his right hand fingerstyle that are to this day absolutely amazing to me. he would do them at tempo on a swing shuffle and then break into triplet runs I still can't believe it lol.

 

[ba-dum-ba-dum]

Thanks everyone for so much great input! Left hand "lift-up" muting at "what is hip" tempo seems bewildering to me, but that's how some players do it? Huh.

 

[31HZ]

Thanks everyone for so much great input! Left hand "lift-up" muting at "what is hip" tempo seems bewildering to me, but that's how some players do it? Huh.

IIRC, Rocco did some muting with the left ring and pinky fingers.

 

[andymac]

IIRC, Rocco did some muting with the left ring and pinky fingers.

Yeah, that's one thing we didn't mention, muting with the other left hand fingers. We all use the other left hand fingers for muting all the time, of course. But I don't know of anyone who can do it at the kind of speed the OP is talking about, to produce quick staccato notes. (The player in the video is using the other left hand fingers for the ghost notes, clearly, but I don't think so for the staccato, as far as I can tell.)

The only ways I know to damp at that speed are the two we talked about: lifting the left hand fretting finger, or damping with the right hand finger that is about to pluck. Damping with other left fingers, (or with other right fingers/palm), is great for slower damping, but doesn't seem possible at this speed.

But maybe I'm wrong? Are there players here who do that?

 

[31HZ]

Yeah, that's one thing we didn't mention, muting with the other left hand fingers. We all use the other left hand fingers for muting all the time, of course. But I don't know of anyone who can do it at the kind of speed the OP is talking about, to produce quick staccato notes. (The player in the video is using the other left hand fingers for the ghost notes, clearly, but I don't think so for the staccato, as far as I can tell.)

The only ways I know to damp at that speed are the two we talked about: lifting the left hand fretting finger, or damping with the right hand finger that is about to pluck. Damping with other left fingers, (or with other right fingers/palm), is great for slower damping, but doesn't seem possible at this speed.

But maybe I'm wrong? Are there players here who do that?

It's easier than you're making it out to be, I think. The idea is to fret with the index/middle finger and simultaneously mute the strings with the ring/pinky; the muting finger stays on the strings (getting the pressure just right is part of the technique).

I don't personally use this technique very often because I can do the "following finger" pluck/mute pretty well up to around quarters at 90bpm, and only when I run out of steam/faster tempo I switch to the "Rocco mute" if the line isn't too complex.

 

[andymac]

It's easier than you're making it out to be, I think. The idea is to fret with the index/middle finger and simultaneously mute the strings with the ring/pinky; the muting finger stays on the strings (getting the pressure just right is part of the technique).

Yeah, maybe I am just making assumptions, based on what I'm used to doing.

You, wompwomp, and this thread have inspired me to pay new attention to muting! I'm going to try these alternate ideas out and see how it goes!

 

[wompwomp]

Yeah, that's one thing we didn't mention, muting with the other left hand fingers. We all use the other left hand fingers for muting all the time, of course. But I don't know of anyone who can do it at the kind of speed the OP is talking about, to produce quick staccato notes. (The player in the video is using the other left hand fingers for the ghost notes, clearly, but I don't think so for the staccato, as far as I can tell.)

The only ways I know to damp at that speed are the two we talked about: lifting the left hand fretting finger, or damping with the right hand finger that is about to pluck. Damping with other left fingers, (or with other right fingers/palm), is great for slower damping, but doesn't seem possible at this speed.

But maybe I'm wrong? Are there players here who do that?

a lot of these figures feature drone notes for 2 or 3 beats and imho there are choices to be made in these instances. I bet if you looked at different bassists covering these tunes you would hear the difference in those choices and you could judge them for yourself vs yourself or the original. I say study it and capture the feel you think is due the best you can. we are all different which is a beautiful thing. but use both right and left hand ideas when you do and really get down. like choose one note on the neck and try to make this kind of groove using these ideas!

and then when you look at changing notes (as in not drone notes) you can sort of actually stab the notes with the left hand pretty reliably (with the coordination that we've been discussing in the left hand, I think andymac did a great job describing the mechanics of squeezing the note prior to the attack) and get a commandable staccato feel. it's like the left hand is sort of micro beating leading the groove (i'll edit here and add that the hammers and other devices that allow the left hand to govern the feel are important too).

I took a look at some of this with a pick (so I took out the ability to stop a note with the right hand) and it was pretty interesting and fruitful. this has been a good convo.