Double Bass Underwood pick up problem

[ken marley]

Hi there

I am trying to get in touch with underwood pick up company in Southern California with no result so far.

I sent the email below to their [email protected] address

Anyone have any ideas ?

Hi there

My name is Ken Marley and I live in England the Uk near Manchester and have been a professional Double Bass player for over 40 years now. I have always used the same Underwood pick up for the entirety of that time with great results as I love the sound/reliability of your ‘amazing pick up’.

Just recently when I have been playing my double bass the sound has occasionally and intermittently ‘cut out’ or lost signal/sound.

Would you consider looking at my underwood pick up and servicing/repairing it for me please ?

I would post it to you safely and of course I would cover any costs incurred if you could advise me accordingly.

I hope you have time to read this email and help me as its the ‘uncertainty’ that the sound will ‘cut out’ when I am playing that makes me nervous when performing live.

Regards

Ken Marley

 

[Earl]

Okay folks I’ve decided to give up on a reply from Underwood regarding support for servicing/repairing my Underwood pick up and I am considering trying the Realist Woodtone Double Bass Pickup with Jack Mount Kit from Realist Woodtone Double Bass Pickup with Jack Mount Kit - Bass Bags Which is only 1 1/2 hours drive from my home near Manchester in the UK and they also fit it as well.

I would like to thank each and every one of you in ‘our Bass Community’ here on TB who have shared some amazing historical information/general advice and great kind words of wisdom too.

Maybe I am guilty of being too optimistic about repairing/servicing a 40 year old piezo crystal pick up and should just be happy I’ve had 40 years of great sound from this pick up.

Thank you all again and I am going to do some research on the Realist pickup above as this is a very big decision to make for me.

Best wishes

Ken

I do not think a 40 year old Underwood is able to be repaired. You got your moneys worth and then some! If you like the sound, just buy a new one. The Realist you are thinking of is the polar opposite in sound that you are used to - bassy, very dark, sounds crappy past a certain volume, feeds back easily.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

I understand that the output completely failed.
There are three possible reasons:
1. broken cable
a) at the jack
b) at the first piezo element (from the jack)
c) anywhere between jack and first piezo element
2. cable shortage
a) inside the jack
b) anywhere in the cable parts
c) inside the piezo element
3. defect jack
4. (mostly theoretical) broken piezo element

First thing to check is the jack. Unscrew it and look if the hot or shield connection got detached.
If so, resolder it.
If not check with a multimeter in resistance measurement if there is a shortage (resistance less than a few Ohms) from hot to shield. If not, there is no shortage at all.

Get a new jack (TS) and replace the old one with the new. If it works the old jack is defective. Dispose and be happy.

Otherwise:
Check the cable for breakage by bending it a bit over the whole length. If there is a difference in bending resistance it might be the spot where the cable broke. Put it back on the bass, connect to an amp strike a string and check if the signal comes back when bending the cable at different spots. If so it is a cable breakage at that point. If it is at least 3 inches from the sensor, cut the cable there and resolder a new mono TS jack. Check if it works. If the cable got too short solder a new shielded cable to the original cable and the jack to that.

Up to that point the solutions are rather easy.

A crushed piezo disc inside is not repairable, only had that once from a pickup I bought used. But that made noises and didn’t completely fail the output. (Was the second element, cut the cable off and it works as a single element pickup.)

What I repaired twice was a detached shield inside the piezo element. The brass wings around the cable have to be bent back to find it and repair. Soldered the cable shield back to the brass case, problem solved. Brass wings bent back around the cable.

But during the first ten to fifteen years my bridge wing pickup sat in the wings under rather high pressure, so removing the pickup from the bridge (not often but sometimes) stressed the cable at the pickup elements a lot more than under a normal low pressure.

No chance to repair if it is the hot wire that got detached inside the piezo element.

I would rather get a new Shadow SH950 (Underwood construction with thicker piezo elements) or a SH-951 if one element is enough than put a Realist pickup with additional material into the bridge wing.
The Realist will break in a very short time because it is much to big for the bridge wing and get stressed very easily and break.
If you really want such a construction better use a Shadow SH-965NFX or even one of the smaller ones like the SH-955NFX cello pickup.
The foils are made from synthetic piezo material and don’t break as easily as the ceramic material in the Realist.

But it might be a good idea to change to better pickups like the Stat-B, Yamahiko, Full Circle, ANS/Bassbalsereit maybe the SH-965NFX under the bridge foot/feet, a LifeLine or a contact microphone. Depends on your use case which is best for you. All better than the Underwood if you also want to use the bow amplified.

 

[ken marley]

Wow ! What an amazing reply and thank you so much for the insightful ways of resolving the problem of my Underwood pick up ‘cutting out intermittently’.
This problem started to occur when I did a gig at a small theatre where I put the bass straight into the house PA via a DI box and the sound guy seemed to have the volume of my Double Bass quite louder than I normally would have it in the house PA. It would ‘cut out’ later on in the second half ( after say 1 hours playing ). It sounded fine until then.
I have checked the pick up at home via my Phil Jones Bass Cub and the only thing I have noticed is it crackles a little when I tap the wire from the jack to the piezo wing bit and that’s about it.
I don’t really have the experience/confidence etc to take apart/repair the various things it could be and that’s my shortcoming.
I have looked at The Realist pickup I mentioned earlier and I saw a video demo of a guy comparing/playing his DB with both the Realist ( under bridge foot copper pickup ) versus the Underwood and the difference was marginal with the Underwood a little more brighter and the Realist a little more darker.
What I am discovering is differences of opinion regarding the Realist pick ups reliability regarding how long it would last and occasional problems it has regarding its sound too.
I am going to spend more time thinking/researching other pickups before I decide what to do but thank you for your amazing advice again.
Best wishes
Ken

 

[Earl]

Wow ! What an amazing reply and thank you so much for the insightful ways of resolving the problem of my Underwood pick up ‘cutting out intermittently’.
This problem started to occur when I did a gig at a small theatre where I put the bass straight into the house PA via a DI box and the sound guy seemed to have the volume of my Double Bass quite louder than I normally would have it in the house PA. It would ‘cut out’ later on in the second half ( after say 1 hours playing ). It sounded fine until then.
I have checked the pick up at home via my Phil Jones Bass Cub and the only thing I have noticed is it crackles a little when I tap the wire from the jack to the piezo wing bit and that’s about it.
I don’t really have the experience/confidence etc to take apart/repair the various things it could be and that’s my shortcoming.
I have looked at The Realist pickup I mentioned earlier and I saw a video demo of a guy comparing/playing his DB with both the Realist ( under bridge foot copper pickup ) versus the Underwood and the difference was marginal with the Underwood a little more brighter and the Realist a little more darker.
What I am discovering is differences of opinion regarding the Realist pick ups reliability regarding how long it would last and occasional problems it has regarding its sound too.
I am going to spend more time thinking/researching other pickups before I decide what to do but thank you for your amazing advice again.
Best wishes
Ken

Realist is A LOT darker. Get another Underwood, or a Yamahiko, or a KNA, or a Full Circle or...

 

[bass player 53]

I have mentioned elsewhere on TB, my experience with the copper foot Realist. It had only a mediocre sound with my Eminence EUB until I used the Sarno variable input impedance Black Box. Somewhere around 5 Mohm on the Black Box setting, the pickup sounded much, much better- fuller, and more like the sound of my bass.
So, I think the input impedance of your amp needs to be between 5-10 Mohm for that pickup. For the Underwood, above 1 Mohm seemed sufficient.

 

[lurk]

I don't know if this has been mentioned, but if arco is a significant part of your world, the Realist is the best bowing piezo I've used.

 

[Ric Vice]

My recommendation would be to get the Realist Life Line if you have bridge adjusters installed on your bass. Original Realists generally only have a shelf life of 4 1/2 years on some basses and they’re only warranted for 1 year. The pressure exerted on a Realist Copper Foil or Wood is pretty strong
after having three fail in ten years I mover on.

 

[DoubleMIDI]

The Shadow SH-965 NFX is similar to the Realist, but without the breakage problem. It needs a CR2032 for the impedance buffer that is screwed onto the underlengths. It has more higher frequency content than the Realist, very good for arco, but misses a bit of the bite of most bridge mounted pickups. The output signal is a bit weak compared to most other pickups.
Unplug the cable from the battery adapter when not in use or the battery will drain.
Good for pizz/arco 50/50 like in tango etc.

I will stay away from a copper Realist and the Bassmax whenever possible.