My standard reference for what you actually need. Note that not even a nut is in there:
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Unskilled Idiot Makes Most Basic Bass Possible
- Thread starter OllieVT
- Start date
Go for it!
It's a very simple project, there's not much you can mess up and everything can be fixed. That pickup kit you linked is already soldered to a volume and tone control and an output jack, you should be fine with it, but you could take this as an oportunity to also learn how to use a soldering iron (it's extremely simple, but you will burn your fingertips a few times).
And if you want to take the acoustic route, use a big can for the sound box. The bigger the better. And you can either use a piezo or that same pbass magnetic pickup on it.
Yup, this. Plus, since simplicity is the goal, you could just solder the pickup directly to the output jack. Doesn't get much simpler than that.
Go for it and post pics!
Order placed for the necessary bits and bobs. $60 for the lot, including a nut and both the magnetic and piezo pickups to keep my options open (and start the stash of potentially useful future stuff). It may well be that one of the lessons I learn is why it's a bad idea to go for the bargain basement options, but let's see.
I've used similar peizo discs. They work and output sound. They work better with some downward pressure so under the bridge maybe if you're using movable, wooden bridge. Also, to sound their best peizos don't play well with typical amplifier and effects input impedances, they need a buffer. However they will most likely make sound as is and may be just what you're looking for.
It depends on the input impedance of the device. Peizos usually like a high input impedance, I want to say something on the order of 10Mohm, but I could be remembering the wrong numbers, where most things optimised for magnetic pickups are 1Mohm or less. IIRC feeding a lower impedance device is a part of what causes the characteristic peizo "quack" on acoustic guitars without a preamp. I'm usually thinking of an onboard preamp / buffer when I write that but I know there are some pedals and the like that are meant to work with unbuffered peizo pickups. I believe Radial has some. Again, I could be remembering the wrong input impedance numbers but you hopefully get the idea.
There's the hobby of learning how to play bass, that certainly takes time and effort.
While I await supplies I've been mulling over design details and future daydreams. I have one specific question:
Is it a terrible idea to have the headstock as a separate attached piece of wood? My guess is yes, given the string tension pulling on it. If that's right I'll be shaping the end of the lump of 2x4 (or possibly 2x3) that will form the neck. This is already finer woodworking than I've done before, but something I think I can manage with the tools and skills I have.
I'm feeling more and more confident at the other end of the device though. I'm going to think of this one as a prototype to test out a few things, in preparation for a much-improved second attempt. As such, I'm currently planning to use three methods of getting the sound: the regular pick-up and then two piezo options, one under the saddle (I found a cigar box video that does this and it seems like it'll suit the project well) and a second one that uses the three piezo discs more like a mic on an acoustic guitar. I'm planning a rudimentary soundbox to cover up my building sins and I'll attach the second set of discs to the inside of that.
This means three output jacks. I've noticed that you supposedly-competent luthier-types are rarely ambitious enough to even use two. Watch and learn.
But yes, for Project 2, I'll learn the basics of soldering. If I do like more than one of the output methods here then I can presumably follow some basic steps to combine them to a single output with a knob(s) to control the proportion of each method. It's probably wiser for my first soldered project to just choose the method I like best and get it working with a single instance. Going in, my guess is that it'll be the standard electric pick-up.
Another miscellaneous idea for the future: why not use double bass strings? With a lap bass, weight and reach are each going to be less of an issue. What benefits do I get going back up to 40+ inch scale length? Any problems beyond everything just being bigger?
Is it a terrible idea to have the headstock as a separate attached piece of wood? My guess is yes, given the string tension pulling on it. If that's right I'll be shaping the end of the lump of 2x4 (or possibly 2x3) that will form the neck. This is already finer woodworking than I've done before, but something I think I can manage with the tools and skills I have.
I'm feeling more and more confident at the other end of the device though. I'm going to think of this one as a prototype to test out a few things, in preparation for a much-improved second attempt. As such, I'm currently planning to use three methods of getting the sound: the regular pick-up and then two piezo options, one under the saddle (I found a cigar box video that does this and it seems like it'll suit the project well) and a second one that uses the three piezo discs more like a mic on an acoustic guitar. I'm planning a rudimentary soundbox to cover up my building sins and I'll attach the second set of discs to the inside of that.
This means three output jacks. I've noticed that you supposedly-competent luthier-types are rarely ambitious enough to even use two. Watch and learn.
But yes, for Project 2, I'll learn the basics of soldering. If I do like more than one of the output methods here then I can presumably follow some basic steps to combine them to a single output with a knob(s) to control the proportion of each method. It's probably wiser for my first soldered project to just choose the method I like best and get it working with a single instance. Going in, my guess is that it'll be the standard electric pick-up.
Another miscellaneous idea for the future: why not use double bass strings? With a lap bass, weight and reach are each going to be less of an issue. What benefits do I get going back up to 40+ inch scale length? Any problems beyond everything just being bigger?
Me too! It's all in my head at the moment. I'll try to get something on paper soon. Some of the measurements are going to be based on what shapes I have in my miscellaneous lumber stash in the basement.
OK, here's what's in my head at the moment:
1. A big plank. I think I have some rough-cut 1x12 pine left over from building a shed. This will be the base that everything else is built on.
2. A slightly smaller plank, maybe 1x6? This will include the headstock and tuning pegs (the black circles). If I'm feeling fancy there might be some rudimentary shaping.
3. A smaller plank again, say 1x4. The fingerboard. Although I guess this could be the same width as the previous plank.
4. A block of wood with a piezo pick-up built-in directly under the saddle.
5. A thin wall, coming slightly higher than the strings. Thinking now after making the image, I might put their bases on top of the main base rather than coming in from the side.
6. The magnetic pick-up, mounted on something or other to make it the correct height.
Then I'll make a hinged lid to mount on the walls. I'm hoping to find something pretty thin that will work as a soundboard (and be the spot for a second piezo arrangement) but be firm enough to work as a hand rest while playing. So however much of a mess the wiring and woodworking is at the right hand end, it'll be out of view (admittedly inside a box whose woodworking will be equally bad). I'm also thinking about throwing some hot pink spray paint around, so that the immediate visual disgust is cosmetic and might not progress as far as looking at the construction details.
A lot of the exact measurements depend on what scraps I have in the basement.
1. A big plank. I think I have some rough-cut 1x12 pine left over from building a shed. This will be the base that everything else is built on.
2. A slightly smaller plank, maybe 1x6? This will include the headstock and tuning pegs (the black circles). If I'm feeling fancy there might be some rudimentary shaping.
3. A smaller plank again, say 1x4. The fingerboard. Although I guess this could be the same width as the previous plank.
4. A block of wood with a piezo pick-up built-in directly under the saddle.
5. A thin wall, coming slightly higher than the strings. Thinking now after making the image, I might put their bases on top of the main base rather than coming in from the side.
6. The magnetic pick-up, mounted on something or other to make it the correct height.
Then I'll make a hinged lid to mount on the walls. I'm hoping to find something pretty thin that will work as a soundboard (and be the spot for a second piezo arrangement) but be firm enough to work as a hand rest while playing. So however much of a mess the wiring and woodworking is at the right hand end, it'll be out of view (admittedly inside a box whose woodworking will be equally bad). I'm also thinking about throwing some hot pink spray paint around, so that the immediate visual disgust is cosmetic and might not progress as far as looking at the construction details.
A lot of the exact measurements depend on what scraps I have in the basement.
OK, the various bits and pieces are here and I've done a bit of experimenting.
The magnetic pick-up works fine and that will be my main way to get the sound out now. Revised goal: a lap bass that works well enough for me to decide whether building a /good/ lap bass is something I want to pursue. That future good one (those future good ones?) will almost certainly go with magnetic pick-ups (and, yes, soldering) so that'll be my main sound option here.
Another factor is that the piezos don't work quite as I imagined, in a way that I think is related to your last comment @KidAmnesia. So I'm going to hold off on them for now. If I get /really/ into this I might try for an acoustic option, and if I do I might build a piezo into that.
I think the biggest still-to-be-solved problem is the tuners. I haven't unpacked those yet. My entire current planning is "drill a hole and attach them in what I hope will be the obvious way". What do I need to know? First two measurements I'll need are headstock thickness (and what the tolerance is on that) and what size hole I need (and again with the tolerance). Are these standard numbers? I'm sure I can mess around with the tuners I have, starting by looking at the basses I have, and find something that works, but shortcuts welcome.
This whole "tolerance" thing is pretty new to me too. Previous wood building projects have been things like woodsheds and chicken coops (attacked in the first instance with the same clueless optimism) and I keep adding nails, screws, bits of wood, chicken wire and anything else that comes to hand until it works. I'm getting the sense that luthiery (is that the word?) does not operate on that principle.
Thanks everyone!
The magnetic pick-up works fine and that will be my main way to get the sound out now. Revised goal: a lap bass that works well enough for me to decide whether building a /good/ lap bass is something I want to pursue. That future good one (those future good ones?) will almost certainly go with magnetic pick-ups (and, yes, soldering) so that'll be my main sound option here.
Another factor is that the piezos don't work quite as I imagined, in a way that I think is related to your last comment @KidAmnesia. So I'm going to hold off on them for now. If I get /really/ into this I might try for an acoustic option, and if I do I might build a piezo into that.
I think the biggest still-to-be-solved problem is the tuners. I haven't unpacked those yet. My entire current planning is "drill a hole and attach them in what I hope will be the obvious way". What do I need to know? First two measurements I'll need are headstock thickness (and what the tolerance is on that) and what size hole I need (and again with the tolerance). Are these standard numbers? I'm sure I can mess around with the tuners I have, starting by looking at the basses I have, and find something that works, but shortcuts welcome.
This whole "tolerance" thing is pretty new to me too. Previous wood building projects have been things like woodsheds and chicken coops (attacked in the first instance with the same clueless optimism) and I keep adding nails, screws, bits of wood, chicken wire and anything else that comes to hand until it works. I'm getting the sense that luthiery (is that the word?) does not operate on that principle.
Thanks everyone!
There's a couple different sizes of tuners; your safest bet is always getting the tuners (same gors fot ñr any other piece of hardware) and meassuring them twice before drilling. Headstocks are about 15 mm (5/8") thick with a tolerance of maybe a couple mm to either side depending on your tuners choice.
What you should decide before is if you want the tuners to be 4 in line or 2+2. I would consider doing a longer headstock that can acomodate the tuners closer to the centerline so you don't end up with the strings fanning out from the nut.
And luthiery can operate on those same principles, but you probably have higher standards.
What you should decide before is if you want the tuners to be 4 in line or 2+2. I would consider doing a longer headstock that can acomodate the tuners closer to the centerline so you don't end up with the strings fanning out from the nut.
And luthiery can operate on those same principles, but you probably have higher standards.
After a pause for some intense woodworking training and deep design analysis (no, I didn't do these), I'm back in action. I acquired a nice piece of cherry for the fingerboard that's a bit thin to fit four strings, so I've reduced the design to two strings. That's plenty tricky enough for me to get a sense of whether this whole building and playing lap basses is something I want to take further.
Building is back underway, and I now have a headstock:
A bit wonky, but seems functional. The cherry fingerboard will be attached on top of this.
My next problem is the nut. How do you attach a nut?? More importantly, what's the easiest, kludgiest, but baseline-effective way to attach a nut? I have a four-string one bought from Amazon, but I'm open to other ideas than making that one work, especially now I'm down to two strings. Would something with bent staples not pushed all the way in work? Other stupid but possible options?
Thanks, as always, for the help!
Building is back underway, and I now have a headstock:
A bit wonky, but seems functional. The cherry fingerboard will be attached on top of this.
My next problem is the nut. How do you attach a nut?? More importantly, what's the easiest, kludgiest, but baseline-effective way to attach a nut? I have a four-string one bought from Amazon, but I'm open to other ideas than making that one work, especially now I'm down to two strings. Would something with bent staples not pushed all the way in work? Other stupid but possible options?
Thanks, as always, for the help!
String pressure mostly holds the nut in place. Barring special cases like angled pointy headstocks where the angle from nut to tuners are trying to pop the nut out one side of the neck, they are not much inclined to go anywhere with strings on. The two major options are that the nut sits on the neck at the end of the fretboard/fingerboard, or the nut sits in a slot at the end of the fretboard/fingerboard. There's the variant where the nut does one of those things, but past the 0 fret position and only acts as a string guide, while there's a zero fret at the 0 position which is what sets the string height.
A tiny bit of glue keeps it from wandering off without making you use too many curse words when you want to change it.
There are a few examples we see of the nut actually being screwed or pinned in place, but they are comparatively rare.
A tiny bit of glue keeps it from wandering off without making you use too many curse words when you want to change it.
There are a few examples we see of the nut actually being screwed or pinned in place, but they are comparatively rare.
Last edited:
I'd just buy a generic nut blank and file it down for the 2 strings. Once you determine the placement area of the nut I would assume you could just use a small chisel to clean out the area in the neck for the nut to sit in.
Thanks both. I have a pre-filed nut already, so I'll use that for this first experimental one. I might spread the strings a bit and use the E and the D slots (I'm going for E and A strings), filing the D one a little larger if necessary. And I think it'll work to mount it at the end of the fingerboard with a bit of glue, and possibly a support piece so that things really can't move around.
