Double Bass upgrade bass, bow, strings or just practice more?

[Harry Monkley]

Curious to get some opinions, I've been working hard on my reading and arco and although I still consider myself very much a novice with a lot to learn, I'm thinking of stepping up (or at least attempting it) from the fairly relaxed community orchestra that I currently attend (they play for enjoyment, don't do concerts but do drag new music out of the library every week, so great sight reading practice) to one of the more serious amateur orchestras where the overall level is higher and there are regular concerts to work towards.

Currently I'm playing a ply bass(with great setup) and using a carbon fibre bow (decent chinese ~£200) on spiro weichs - I'm going to have some money available soon for an upgrade, but not a huge amount, I could run to a better bow, or a used modern factory carved bass(stentor/strunal/eastman etc), but not both, and wouldn't have enough to break into the £3-4k range which seems the going rate in UK dealers for instruments that are a significant step up from student models.

I know that I'm the weakest link, but do wonder whether I might be making life harder than necessary, and maybe open to a certain amount of predjudice (blonde ply bass) although it might be a complete non-issue, as standards and expectations don't seem to apply as strictly for positions in sections that are a little underpopulated.

Should I splash the cash or just keep hitting the shed?

 

[Tom Lane]

Here's my two cents. After playing arco for a year+ I went to audition a possible new bow. I played every bow in the shop, A-B'ing them until I had 2 contenders. I compared them against my current bow and asked myself if I was able to play better with the other bows. I could, so I bought one of them. I don't regret it. I think you can make the same analogy for a new bass. You probably don't need it, but if it helps you play better, or you enjoy playing it more, and you can afford it, life is short.

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

Here's the thing. Every now and again, something you just have to have floats by for a price you can't believe. If you don't have cash on hand, you don't get to keep that special thing. If you've spent your cash on something that's just OK, you don't have cash on hand.

Hit the shed. Clear your mind and play.

 

[Andy Mopley]

There is sort of Zen logic in there, from the sheriff

 

[KUNGfuSHERIFF]

^^^ No lie. There's about seven grand retail hanging on my bow rack. More than I deserve by far. Total cost out of pocket: $900, and I paid full asking prices.

Right place, right time, cash on hand.

 

[Jmilitsc]

You probably don't need it, but if it helps you play better, or you enjoy playing it more, and you can afford it, life is short.

Couldn't agree more! I've had a knockoff pfretzschner ply and a bad bow since the 80's... past couple years I got motivated to improve my playing, but was really fighting the instrument to produce the sound I wanted to actually listen to... started with strings (Spiros were super difficult for me on arco), Obligatos definitely helped the playability of that bass, but as I gained technique and control, I still hated the sound... sigh. Tried dozens of carved basses, loved one, got it, and since then I really enjoy the sounds I can make and I look forward practicing or rehearsing or gigging whenever I can find the time (this isn't my full time profession, just a serious hobbyist). This led me to a new bow the same way for the same reasons, digging it even more. Anyway - really enjoying the gear made a big difference for me. I spent a long time searching and made it a goal not to buy something that didn't achieve that. Good luck!

 

[MikeCanada]

If the bass is properly setup, and the Spiros have been changed sometime since the last ice age, there is nothing wrong with your current bass in its current situation. Different people have different opinions on Spiros as orchestral strings but plenty of players use them and love them so if they work for you, live with them. You can spend a LOT of money trying to find a string you really love, but I would save that quest for a different instrument.

If you are going to upgrade your instrument, I would suggest a meaningful upgrade. Either a relatively new hybrid from the usual suspects like Eastman, Shen, or whoever you happen to see on a regular basis across the pond, or get into something older from Eastern Europe or Germany. If you are just going up a single model, to a nicer ply, etc. you will likely experience the honeymoon period of a new bass, but if you are taking it more seriously and wanting to improve, you are going to notice instrument limitations pretty soon if you're not really making a jump in quality. That does not mean you need to spend crazy amounts of money, as sometimes the right instrument comes along for the right price. It does mean that upgrading/side-grading just for the sake of doing it likely isn't in your best interest.

As far as your bow goes, when was the last time it had a rehair? If you are playing on the hair it originally came with or you haven't had a rehair recently, that can make a huge difference in how it performs and sounds. There are again options out there, but in North America you would be looking at something in the $500-800 range to be an ok step up from a good carbon fibre bow, and depending on your budget you can be starting to look at some of the less established modern makers and/or the "student" bows by makers usually in the $1000-2000 range. If you are thinking of an upgraded bass at some point in the not so distant future, I would avoid a bow at this time, as sometimes bows and instruments don't get along.

How do you spend your money? If your strings are really dead and you don't like dead Spiros, that might be a place to start, if your bow needs a rehair that's definitely a good idea, and if that setup hasn't been checked in a while, it wouldn't hurt to have someone give it a once over. Otherwise, lessons would be a great investment in yourself and your bass playing if you are not already taking them. You will progress much faster, if you have to audition for the orchestras you are interested in joining they can help you prepare for that, and they can also give you another bass player's opinion on your gear situation and what your next step there should be.

 

[Harry Monkley]

I had my bow rehaired a couple of months ago, on the advice of my teacher even though it still had a good ribbon of hair, the hair was getting old. My bass is in good shape, sounding better than ever, and my spiros have lost their twang and metallic edge.

Here is what I currently perceive as the drawbacks of my current setup on a day to day basis;

Bass - when I first got it the neck seemed like a telegraph pole, but it now seems really small - not too much of an issue when playing seated, but when I need to play standing up, it gets tiring very quickly, otherwise I love it.

Bow - overall lightweight (129g), but the stick is on the long side for a french bow at 70cm/27.5inch excluding the button, I suspect that it may less than ideal in terms of general ergonomics and more tiring than necessary to use as a result. Not really an issue for practicing scales and arpeggios, but on the technically more tricky material my teacher is getting me to work on it can feel unwieldy at times.

Strings - get the job done, great for pizz, don't forgive any technical sloppiness arco (which I don't regard as a bad thing most of the time, but some days I do wonder whether I'm making life harder for myself than necessary).

Teacher - inspiring and uncompromising, no complaints.

 

[David Potts]

Upgrading might be likened to playing leapfrog. Check out your gear with your teachers'. Compare your bow and theirs on your bass. Does theirs make a better sound and more tone, grab your strings all over the hair when moving in both directions and feel nicely balanced? Then compare bows on their bass. Also ask if you can try other peoples' gear with your bass and bow. This process may help you decide which way to go.

After testing the bow-to-bass relationship as above and still not sure about which way to go I would probably upgrade the bow first then keep saving for the bass. This will enable you to keep advancing your bowing skills and improve your range of expression and dynamics. Then take this bow with you to try out basses later.

To sum up, you can make a good sound on a bad bass with a good bow but a bad bow will still not make a good sound on a good bass (IMO)

Cheers, DP

 

[robobass]

Bow - overall lightweight (129g), but the stick is on the long side for a french bow at 70cm/27.5inch excluding the button

I think you should look for a better bow right away. A lot of cheaper French bows, especially Chinese, have horrible dimensions. Too long, too thin, heads too small, etc. Upgrading to something like a Metropolitan might involve more money than you were considering, but it will probably do more for you than buying a $2k ccb, and it will hold its value.

To sum up, you can make a good sound on a bad bass with a good bow but a bad bow will still not make a good sound on a good bass (IMO)

Wise words! I'd also add that you can learn and progress far more effectively with a good tool than with a lousy one.

 

[Super Iridium]

I say switch to the more serious orchestra. I am a novice too, and I find the practice that comes with getting ready for a performance is worth 10x what you spend on the more "relaxed" playing. Even if we're only playing for a few people at a nursing home, my community group puts a lot of concentrated effort into rehearsals leading up to a show, and that's where I make the biggest gains in understanding and technique.

 

[Phil Rowan]

I think you should look for a better bow right away. A lot of cheaper French bows, especially Chinese, have horrible dimensions. Too long, too thin, heads too small, etc. Upgrading to something like a Metropolitan might involve more money than you were considering, but it will probably do more for you than buying a $2k ccb, and it will hold its value.


Wise words! I'd also add that you can learn and progress far more effectively with a good tool than with a lousy one.

+1

I once played a friend's Rubino bow on my mid century hybrid Benedikt Lang bass, and I'll for sure be upgrading to a new, serious bow sometime soon (I hope), and definitely before I upgrade basses. The difference was immense. My bass sounded way louder, way darker, and it was so much easier to play all manner of bowings with that Rubino. Oh, and to the OP, you don't have to spend *that* kind of money (Rubinos ain't cheap!) to upgrade to a way better bow than what you currently have.