Double Bass Use of open strings

[Andy Mopley]

Hi all

I have a question in relation to the use of open strings, specifically the G string...

I have been playing Etude #18 from Simandl (tempo di Polacca) where in the fast passages I am avoiding the use of the open G. I just think it sounds better, clearer this way. Similarly, with the Messiah - which by the way I love playing! - there are some parts where I feel the G notes are better fingered rather than played as open string - even if it means the left hand has to do a little more work.

What's the view out there, is it that generally on faster passages, the open strings can ring out more and thus make the passage unclear? Or is it again a technique issue, which can be worked on (suggestions welcomed!), and economy of movement should prevail but never take away from the sound produced?

Thanks for reading!

 

[MikeCanada]

String crossings especially at faster tempos are not as easy as we think they are. Both hands/arms and really your entire body has to make changes to get there, and adjust to the new territory. In a best case scenario you are using similar enough strings across the bass and you instrument responds evenly in all registers that there isn't a significant different in tension and feel, but there is going to be some. Add to this the difference in sound character you get from the ebony nut vs. your fingers and both from a technique and tone point of view sometimes open strings really aren't the answer.

Although an open G will sound different than a closed G, if it is extremely different than the notes around it I would be worried about technique issues. If you are coming to it from the D string then it is most likely a problem with the string crossing, and if you are coming to it down the G string and continuing to the D string you are likely anticipating the string crossing too much. Work on your string crossings at a slow tempo focusing on keeping the movement as minimal and fluid as possible, and listen for differences in dynamics, a scratchy start, is one accented (more) than the other etc. Use a short note with a pause between (think of it as a single 16th note followed by three rests) and use that pause to cross strings. This way when you bring it up to tempo you are using a similar stroke to what you would be doing in fast 16th note passages. It helps to work on all strings open and closed, but if you practice it with the same note closed on the lower string (a G on the D with an open G, D on the A with an open D etc.) you can really hear the differences and work on minimizing them.

Economy of motion is worth thinking about, but you have to ask yourself if your left hand shifting to reach a G from an Eb is more motion than a string crossing. It really isn't when you think about it. There are different schools of thought and you have to assess each individual passage to make informed decisions, but some times playing up the string instead of across is the more economical solution, and it sounds cleaner as a result.

 

[Hector Wolff]

Hi Andy,

I tend to use closed notes (avoid the open strings) on the longer notes and in the legato and lyrical passages - When the notes are flying fast and furious, I will grab for the open string whenever it allows a necessary shift to be made more easily (you shift while the open note is being bowed), or when it allows me to avoid a shift while on my way to another string. However, when the use of an open string would result in cross string gymnastics, I'll usually stay with the closed.

There are fingerings shown in my editions of the Scherzo in Beethoven's 5th, and in Mozart's Marriage of Figaro Overture that really point out the value of this approach. In a given passage the same note might be played closed in one measure and open in the next - all depending on where you were coming from and where you were going to.

 

[eerbrev]

Both of the responders here have raised very good points.

Another thing to think about is historical appropriateness. In something like Handel's Messiah, open strings were used ALL the time because vibrato was an ornament and not a constant thing. Open strings mesh fine with closed notes senza vib.. Now, one has to temper that with modern practice (They don't call it "Historically Informed" practice for nothing), but Using open strings to facilitate a shift, or to help with technical facility is a good idea generally.

Now, if you're playing something like Strauss, or Wagner, obviously more closed notes and Vibrato are commonly used. That said, those pieces are often written with that style of playing in mind.

 

[Andy Mopley]

Thanks all. I suppose it all comes down to context and ability.

Mike - I came across a very good method book (Bernier) which seems to have extensive (melodic) exercises on strings crossing, and bow control - I also have the Sevcick for DB - but the Bernier seems to work better for me.

Hector, eerbrev, many thanks for your replies too, in particular the historical input. I wasn't aware of it.

So looking at the attached example, in the key of G, from Messiah, would you use an open "G" or a closed one in the 3rd bar to make the jump to the octave easier? Or possibly both, open and close, in this passage?

Thanks again.

 

[MikeCanada]

I am sure there are a lot of really great exercises out there that can help with string crossings, and that may or may not be the problem. I have often found in my own playing that string crossings are problematic in fast passages, but playing in 5ths changes the game a bit as well.

For the passage in question, given it is the Messiah and it is a mf-f passage you could use the open G in both places. Conserve bow on the tied half note so you aren't out at the tip trying to play the fast notes, and the G in the third bar can be used so you can shift to a first finger E on the A string with the octave on your forth finger on the G string if you wish. If the G in the second bar is not speaking quickly enough or seems to stick out closing it would also be an option, and you could use a few different fingerings to facilitate that, but I would encourage keeping both the G and the A on the D string at that point so you don't have 4 string crossings in as many eighth notes.

Someone permanently in 4ths might have an alternative suggestion for fingerings. In general I agree that open strings are more appropriate in some periods of music than others, but every ensemble has differences of opinion not only on open strings but how to interpret different periods of music as well. I have played some very romantic Messiahs, some with gut strings and frets, and a bunch somewhere in between so what your ensemble is doing with it is also worth keeping in mind.

 

[neilG]

Nobody really knows what anyone did in Handel's orchestra, but it's a safe bet that if fretted basses were used, no vibrato would have been effective and the open strings would be fine. You also have to take into account that you're not the only one playing that line and you have to blend, possibly with cello, bassoon, organ and/or harpsichord. If my G string was still in tune by that point, I'd play all the G's in your passage open. If it sounds good, do it.

 

[Hector Wolff]

Hi Andy,

If you take that tied half note A on the G string with the first finger, and use the open G, the whole second measure can be played easily in one position. Then you hit the second open G, and shift, as Mike said to take the E on the A string, and pop up to take the octave E with the fourth finger.

 

[Les Fret]

Good topic! I think you should be able to play open strings with a good sound since you will have to use that a lot. Especially in fast passages when you make shifts to higher positions open strings are very handy and convenient. Playing that open string instead stopped makes it unnecessary difficult and awkward for the left hand in those cases. When you play slow lyrical passages you most likely make other choices and play more stopped notes. But it can also be hard to play an A on the G string with the first finger and than the G on the D string with the 4th finger very fluently in a slow passages without a gab between the notes.

What I found hard to do is when you play a fast slurred string crossing passage with an open G string somewhere in the middle. Sometimes you get that scratchy sound on the open G in such passages. It is hard to control that fast string crossing on the open G in fast slurred passages.

 

[Andy Mopley]

The scratchy sound is the thing I hate!!

 

[bejoyous]

I played Glinka Ruslan & Ludmilla Overture, Mozart Clarinet Concerto and Beethoven 5 this week and played lots of open strings. Sounded fine.