Using a HPF live with a 5-string

[JenderBazzFass]

I've recently got a 5-string Jazz Bass, and I have a run of dates in October that I'm hoping to use it on, provided I feel I'm sufficiently acclimated to the 5 by then.

We have a silent stage, use IEM for everything, and I never have a problem hearing myself. I play through a Genzler Magellan Pre pedal by DI.

For the sound in the room, it seems to work well with my P-Bass to use the HPF on the Magellan set to about 40 hz, as is commonly recommended. Generally I think I have good tone and am heard appropriately. (I have the option of using the HPF on my Cali 76, but generally I have this turned down and filter at the Preamp)

However, with a 5 I believe the fundamental would go down to 31hz in standard tuning. (I wouldn't use any lower tunings)

Do you set the HPF down when using a 5, or are the general reasons people want to attenuate sound below about 40Hz still in effect when using a 5?

Thanks, please forgive / educate me if there's anything I am missing. I will of course experiment with it live, but rehearsing in advance in the room we'll be playing isn't possible.

 

[Chris Chong]

The HPF on the cali76 only affects the signal which triggers the compression, it does not high pass the actual signal.

 

[tom-g]

Just try it and listen if you like it. For me 40 Hz works fine with a 5 string.

 

[s0c9]

I run the High Pass on the Cali76 - after adjusting to taste. I play a Fender Elite Jazz FIVE-string. I don't own a 4-string bass.

 

[eniac]

My general rule of thumb is to set a HPF no lower than the -3 dB point of whatever speaker systems are in use. A HPF's primary purpose is to protect low-frequency drivers from overexcursion at the power levels anticipated. (A HPF's "order" or slope is part of the equation, too, but let's set that aside for now.) It's often difficult to get reliable/meaningful performance specs from cab manufacturers. So, absent those, I always err on the conservative side and set a HPF's -3 dB point higher than someone else might deem necessary.

Take into account the possibility of multiple HPFs in the signal chain -- some that you might not be aware of. If you can describe the sound system, that would help.

 

[Killing Floor]

I run my HPF closer to 70-75 Hz (guessing based on the position of controls) and I'm still shaking the walls all day. And it's one of the first thing's I'd adjust after the volume up or down to adjust to a room.

 

[mikeGJ]

I run my variable HPF at about 60-70 Hz, set by ear according to the situation, 4 string bass or 5 string bass.

 

[thisSNsucks]

I use the high pass on the Cali and on my Noble DI live all the time.

 

[mdogs]

Best purchase I have made is my always on Broughton HPF, it has no markings on the knob, you have no choice but to set it with your ears. I run it all the time, our sound guy tells me not to bother because he takes care it at the board…what he doesn’t know, won’t hurt him.

 

[baxter_x]

I use mine around 60 to 70 hertz. Broughton only on HPF. Great stuff. I wish I new about this thing when I started.

 

[burgerdj]

Very few cabinets are going to produce the fundamental of a low B. I play a five string tuned to Bb for one of my regular gigs. I still set my HPF around 40. My cabinets appreciate it and front of house is likely going to apply their own HPF on your signal anyway.

 

[Cleezmo]

I'll echo what the others are saying. I use a 5 string for 90% of my gigs, and my Broughton Always On is, in fact, always on. My guess is mine is set somewhere between 45-60, depending on the room, since it doesn't have markings.

As others have noted - just because your bass can produce a 30hz signal, does not mean your cab can reproduce it. Most cabs are rated at 40-45hz, so by using your HPF you're keeping your amp from producing signal your cab can't reproduce, making things (in theory) more efficient.

 

[Ellery]

I use a Broughton Always On HPF and use the same settings with 4 & 5 strings. Keeps a tight bottom end, no boominess which seems to promote low end punch (if that is technically incorrect then it’s just in my head). But I have never observed the low range of a fiver sounding thin using this pedal.

 

[darwin-bass]

HPF of 40 Hz on a 4 string is arguably no low-cut at all.

 

[TrevorOfDoom]

There’s a really old thread on here somewhere with waterfall graphs of pickup responces, and it shows that most basses don’t actually reproduce the fundamental of a low E, let alone a low B.
When i had a variable HPF i set it to 60Hz, about halfway between the low E fundamental of 41Hz and the first order harmonic at 82Hz. I was only playing 4 strings at that time.
With a 5string, i think 45Hz is a perfect place for the HPF.
Besides, the human ear sucks at hearing anything below ~45 - 50Hz (depending on your amount of hearing loss. Tinnitus says eeeeeeeeeeeeee…) so all that’s there is rumbly, high excursion frequencies that’d blow a speaker before you could hear them.

I will add another reason to run an HPF, especially at higher frequencies: to keep your bass signal out of the kick drum’s way.
I’ve asked thousands of FOH folks and the majority of them preemptively run an HPF on the bass (and usually everything else except the kick).
But if you find a soundperson who doesn’t, then remember the first priority of live sound is the vocals, and the kick drum is very closely behind that.
Everything else is tertiary.
So your HPF can make the FOH’s life easier, and make your band sound better as a whole.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

I have the Magellan PRE/DI pedal too and run the high pass filter at around 40Hz all the time. I only gig a 5-string.

 

[silky smoove]

HPF of 40 Hz on a 4 string is arguably no low-cut at all.

A 4-string, even when tuned to EADG, can put out low frequency content below the fundamental of the low E. The HPF is still doing useful work at that point.

 

[monsterthompson]

Some things to consider.

HPF slopes can be steep but they aren’t brick walled at the selected frequency.

Most speaker cabs are physical HPFs because they can’t produce frequencies below a threshold at the same level as ones above it. Most aren’t producing a low B fundamental with authority.

Most humans aren’t hearing low B fundamental, and the overtones are going to mask it. Plus, that frequency is kick drum territory and the sound guy could filter it from the bass.

Unless you’re in a chugging metal band you probably aren’t playing a ton of open low B content. If you’re running drive of any kind then you’ll get a variety of filtering, compression, and overtone effects altering the signal.

I’m not a gigging pro, but from my time around these parts, I think the advice to not worry about it and use your ears is going to go a long way.

 

[Element Zero]

I turn mine up in frequency until too much bottom end is gone. Could be 30Hz could be 150Hz

 

[Rayjay]

HPF of 40 Hz on a 4 string is arguably no low-cut at all.

You’d be quite surprised, there is pretty substantial sub 40 Hz noise going on even with a 4 string. A lot of it has to do with finger plucking or otherwise striking or picking the strings (to hear this, mute the strings entirely and pluck them) and pickup / string contact. There are demos with before and after videos showing how much more the speakers move without the filter and how it significantly tightens up your amp efficiency.