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Using a PA speaker as an Amp - sending to the board

Wissen

Wissen

Nov 11, 2007
438
524
Central PA
#1
Calling all sound engineers. I am branching out from my comfortable career as a bassist into new instruments - specifically mandolin and banjo in electric projects.

Since I have to build my equipment for this new direction, I wanted to think outside the box. I have read enough advice on the internet to think that getting a single QSC K8 (or, more likely, something similar that I can actually afford) would be a great option for my setup. I don't need tube drive on a mandolin, so I have started moving away from acoustic and electric guitar amps. A PA speaker would be more versatile for other musical situations I find myself in from time to time.

The question I haven't been able to find an answer to is, if I show up to a gig with my instruments, the K8, and a pre-amp solution, what is the sound guy going to wish I had with me to make his life easier?

Would the sound guy put a DI box in between this preamp and my speaker? If I showed up with a little four or eight-channel mixer instead, how would the sound guy go about incorporating that into the setup? Would he just hand me a DI box and tell me to put the mixer away?

Are there other options out there I am not considering? What is my best option for a preamp so that I can integrate into the house sound most easily? I know enough about live sound to know that micing the K8 is not the right answer, but what is the right answer?

I'll stop restating the question. I think you get the point.
 
#2
Wissen said:
Would the sound guy put a DI box in between this preamp and my speaker?
Click to expand...
I might, but I'm hoping to be educated along with you.

Disclaimer - I am an engineer, and I do live sound - but I do not claim to be a "sound engineer."
I know enough about live sound to know that micing the K8 is not the right answer...
Click to expand...
Why, exactly ?
I see speaker cabs miked all the time...
I've got a box of mics I use just for that purpose.
 
#3
I understand that guitar speakers are miced all the time. But with a 2-way PA speaker, putting a mic on the woofer means you aren't capturing any of the highs from the horn, and vice versa. Two mics to capture the proper sound from a 2-way speaker seems a little excessive to me, and exactly the kind of thing a sound guy would (rightfully) kvetch about.
 
#4
Last gig with my 9 piece band I used a Zoom B1on pedal into a Behringer B208D and fed the chain out of that to the PA. I turned the "low" control off on that speaker as I get plenty of backwash from the PA subs. I want to try a mike stand mounted Mackie SRM-150 next, nestled under my iPad :cool:.
 
#6
Wissen said:
Would the sound guy put a DI box in between this preamp and my speaker? If I showed up with a little four or eight-channel mixer instead, how would the sound guy go about incorporating that into the setup? Would he just hand me a DI box and tell me to put the mixer away?
Click to expand...
If it were me, I'd take the XLR feed off that PA into the PA - and avoid having to worry about multiple mics on a PA (or FRFR - Full Range Flat Response) speaker.
I'd actually prefer SEPERATE DI's for banjo and mandolin - due to inherent differences in gain levels from each - and NOT a mixer, because that gives YOU control over levels and not me.
What you hear on stage seldom emulates what is needed in FOH to balance those instruments in the mix.
My guitar player uses this for his acoustic and mandolin - giving 2 channels 2 FOH.
fire-eye_red-eye_twin_01.jpg
 
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#11
Wissen said:
I only see one balanced line out on this box. How does he get two channels to the board?
Click to expand...
Apologies...
You are correct.. he uses that DI for his banjo/mandolin - single FOH channel. He then runs acoustic gtr from a 2nd DI (I didn't ask him which model) and electric is from an e609 mic on his DocZ cabinet.

I'll check on the other DI (and take a pic) at the gig tonight..
 
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#12
Couple of suggestion from someone who has only used PA stuff as bass monitor for the last 20 years:

Get a bigger one than the K8 , so you'll have more low end with your bass. Because you'll be using it for your bass too one day.
Once you get used to PA stuff , getting back to normal/standard bass monitors (amps) is very though.

As for the preamp , if you use multiple instrument , a little console is a good idea.
Their are thousands of options.
Just be sure about the input impedance if one of your instrument doesn't have a piezo buffer.

Be sure that your little board has a least one bus on top of the usual L-R so you can use that bus to send FOH. Independent level control is crucial for your own monitoring.

You can get rack mounted board , or you can go the digital way too , like I did.

Nowadays , lot's of "sound cards" have mixer capacity. A little MOTU unit has preamp/mixer/EQ/comp/multiple bus capacity.
You just send balanced output from the mixer or unit to FOH in either a single bus , or each instrument on their own bus. Or direct out....
Possibilities and options are limitless , it all goes down to your budget.

Another advantage to go with a console or Soundcard is the possibility to use headphones or IEM.

And no , don't mike your monitor :banghead:
 
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#13
Wissen said:
Calling all sound engineers. I am branching out from my comfortable career as a bassist into new instruments - specifically mandolin and banjo in electric projects.

Since I have to build my equipment for this new direction, I wanted to think outside the box. I have read enough advice on the internet to think that getting a single QSC K8 (or, more likely, something similar that I can actually afford) would be a great option for my setup. I don't need tube drive on a mandolin, so I have started moving away from acoustic and electric guitar amps. A PA speaker would be more versatile for other musical situations I find myself in from time to time.

The question I haven't been able to find an answer to is, if I show up to a gig with my instruments, the K8, and a pre-amp solution, what is the sound guy going to wish I had with me to make his life easier?

Would the sound guy put a DI box in between this preamp and my speaker? If I showed up with a little four or eight-channel mixer instead, how would the sound guy go about incorporating that into the setup? Would he just hand me a DI box and tell me to put the mixer away?

Are there other options out there I am not considering? What is my best option for a preamp so that I can integrate into the house sound most easily? I know enough about live sound to know that micing the K8 is not the right answer, but what is the right answer?

I'll stop restating the question. I think you get the point.
Click to expand...

The Bose personal amplification system will do the job of what you need for a multi-instrument amp/pa system ... It sounds great for ANY instrument ... the down side is it is pricey

74269.jpg
 
#14
The QSC K series speakers have a line out. If you are running your instruments through a mixer then the QSC K, you need to send a line from the mixer, or from the K. Most stages have snakes with XLR inputs, you need to send an XLR to the board. The K has an XLR direct out.
 
#15
Wissen said:
Calling all sound engineers. I am branching out from my comfortable career as a bassist into new instruments - specifically mandolin and banjo in electric projects....The question I haven't been able to find an answer to is, if I show up to a gig with my instruments, the K8, and a pre-amp solution, what is the sound guy going to wish I had with me to make his life easier?
Click to expand...

Most FOH operators would strongly prefer to get your multiple instruments on independent channels. Conventionally, that would mean three channels of DI split to FOH from or before your separate stage preamps. Alternatively, you might look at a digital rackmount mixer. Depending on your budget, something as low-cost as an XR16 can let you process and mix bass, banjo, and mando (and more) for your PA-style stage monitor while sending each instrument on its own aux to FOH (w/ or w/o the eq, FX, and processing you're using for stage monitoring.
 
#16
I actually used a Mackie SRM-150 today - little 5" mic stand mounted guy. Worked fine outdoors with my 9 piece horn band. I could clearly hear the notes I was playing and the subs backwash filled in the low end just fine. I mounted my iPad above it. I drove it with my Zoom B1on and fed the link out to the PA.
 
#17
A couple assumptions: The QSC K8 is pretty loud for its size, but still...If bassists who double on other instruments find themselves able to get by w/ an 8" (or a Roadranger's Mackie 5"!) speaker as a personal monitor, I'd expect that you're on very quiet stages and/or bandmates aren't needing your rig to monitor bass on stage. And on louder stages, if your band's stage monitoring can handle bass, it can probably handle whatever other instruments you double on—certainly the OP's banjo and mando.

If those assumptions describe your situation, if find yourself on much louder stages (FOH spill and/or venue noise from larger crowds) you might find the small monitor no longer keeps up. In those cases, it's a handy insurance if whatever gear you're using for stage pre-amps, DI sends, and on-stage monitor mixing can also feed a personal IEM mix. In those cases, even wired off-the-shelf earbuds fed w/ a "more-me" mix that you control will at least let you hear yourself on stage.
 
#18
I've used a Behringer B208D on the floor indoors in the past. With a drummer, two guitars, two sax, keyboard, and two singers we get loud enough that I wear earplugs. I'm in the drummer's monitor and the mains which are a pair of Bose L1's in front pointed at each other so no prob with the others hearing me.
 
#19
^ Yes: IME in the right circumstances (controlled stage mix, w/ other stage monitors carrying some bass and spilling back to the my mic position), I can get by in some cases w/ something like a modern Hot-Spot style monitor.

Even then, though, it depends on the balance of the stage spill and how FOH is being run. In a club that runs too much PA and has the subs booming, I need more robust monitoring (or—better in those cases—IEMs).
 

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