Using my amp wrong for years.

[SteveBassJr]

I have been trying out difference power/pre amp configurations and I have came to the conclusion that, I have been over looking all of my tonal possible options.
My gear consist of a pedal board with the basswitch IQ di. Which is a fantastic preamp. For some time now I have been running the Basswitch into the preamp section of either my Aguilar Ag 700 or my Ampeg Svt3 pro.
So In essence I have been running a pre-amp into a pre-amp. Which one could say cancels each other out, in a way.
So I explored using my effects loop send to bypass the Ag's pre-amp giving me all control from the Basswitch. Wow, what a difference. I still use the power amp section of the Ag but not the eq. Next I try running the Basswitch between the pre of the Ag and the power amp using the send and return of the effects loop. And another Eureka moment. So now I'm sending the signal opposite of what I have been doing for years.
Now the hard part is deciding which option to use. Ugh.
I spent hours here on TB reading up on what people do. I guess it all depends on what mood I'm in for the music.
If I want the Aguilar or Ampeg sound I won't use my Basswitch eq as a pre-amp ( just the effects) and possibly at times just get the Basswitch tone and bypass the pre on my amps.
I guess I'll forever be searching for the sound!
I could always get a cheap amp head with a effects loop and just use the power section for my pre-amp.
I just don't know. So many options.

 

[two fingers]

Yeah I'm new to effects myself. But I determined years ago that when it comes to a signal path, the shorter the better. A pre into a pre can get hairy.

Will the XLR out on the Bassswitch feed a power amp? If so, power amps are all over the interwebz for cheap. Just send your pedal board to the power amp and be done with it.

The Aggie will have a sound of its own. But I never found the SVT 3 to have a particular sound worth writing home about (and I have owned every SVT ever made except a 5 and a 7). But that's just me.

 

[SteveBassJr]

Yeah I'm new to effects myself. But I determined years ago that when it comes to a signal path, the shorter the better. A pre into a pre can get hairy.

Will the XLR out on the Bassswitch feed a power amp? If so, power amps are all over the interwebz for cheap. Just send your pedal board to the power amp and be done with it.

The Aggie will have a sound of its own. But I never found the SVT 3 to have a particular sound worth writing home about (and I have owned every SVT ever made except a 5 and a 7). But that's just me.

Yes the di out of the basswich will power the power amp perfectly. Right now, I have a 15 year old Carvin DSM 2000. It's 38lbs so it's a bit heavy compared to what's out today.
It's crazy that I have spent all this $ on amps and now just want to use my outboard pre amp. The thing ( I THINK ) I like about the svt is the tubes. I run that into a old ampeg v4 from the 70's.

 

[agedhorse]

How do you use the DI out to feed a power amp and also feed a mixer as a DI?

 

[dukeorock]

I don't know that there's a 'Wrong' Way to do it. On many doubling gigs, I run my Grace Felix pre into the front of a Mesa D800. In general, I would agree that the shortest path is often the best, but your ears need to be the final judge. Happy tone hunting

 

[Kro]

Which one could say cancels each other out, in a way.

Many users - most even, if they assess their signal chain, would likely find that they're stacking multiple preamps. Even if nothing more than just an onboard pre into the pre on their amp.

The idea that preamps automatically cancel each other out or fight with one another I take a bit of an issue with - they only do so if set up to do so (heck even contour/EQ settings on a single pre can counteract one another). Nothing inherently wrong with stacking them, just something to be mindful of.

This is where the fun of experimentation comes into play. I am excited for you that you had your aha! moment with your gear though, and should have some fun getting it l sorted out!

 

[SteveBassJr]

How do you use the DI out to feed a power amp and also feed a mixer as a DI?

I guess in that case I would use the line out of the basswich to feed the power amp and the di to the mixer.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Running a preamp into the input of a preamp is not a problem but you have to watch your volume levels. An effects loop is usually designed to accept a higher level signal. Try it both ways and see what works best but note that what you get out of it depends on the levels. So it's complicated to sort out.

A preamp into a tube amp can work better. Levels can be set to saturate the tube first stage and provide a nice smooth distortion. Finding the right balance is important.
With a preamp overdriving a solid state preamp, results can be iffy. It depends on how you do it and the amp.

 

[BadExample]

I 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) preamp -> preamp is not bad, but it can take a lot of fiddling around with. Run a pre->pre, then biamp and you have some work ahead of you.

 

[Killed_by_Death]

I could always get a cheap amp head with a effects loop and just use the power section for my pre-amp.

Just get a power amp (no pre).

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I 2nd (or 3rd or 4th) preamp -> preamp is not bad, but it can take a lot of fiddling around with. Run a pre->pre, then biamp and you have some work ahead of you.

I 4th or 5th that.
You can get a whole different and desirable sound from stacked preamps or you can get a real mess.
It seems it would actually be very difficult to have two different types of preamps actually cancel out each other.
All of the tonal components of one would have to be directly opposite to all of the tonal components of the other and in equal but opposite phase/polarity. The ultimate cancellation of two preamps would be to get no signal out at all.
That might prove difficult to do even with similar preamps.

 

[inanimate_carb]

If you're running a pre-amp into a stand-alone bass head, that is something a lot of players do. Many guys have a Sansamp, Sadowsky, MXR, or many other brands of preamps in line. They either add boost, maybe distortion in some cases, and tonal variation/flavor. Used properly, there's no problem with this at all and it's been going on at least 30 years.

Even more players using active basses essentially do the same thing with the onboard preamp going into the preamp of a bass head.

 

[BadExample]

If you're running a pre-amp into a stand-alone bass head, that is something a lot of players do. Many guys have a Sansamp, Sadowsky, MXR, or many other brands of preamps in line. They either add boost, maybe distortion in some cases, and tonal variation.

Even more players using active basses essentially do the same thing with the onboard preamp going into the preamp of a bass head.

I had that same thought. In fact, I just got hold of a preamp in pedal form that was designed to be (and now is with alterations) an in-ax pre. And that thing just loves a Pork Loin!

 

[Terracite]

I wouldn't bypass the preamp on the amp. Set your head as flat as you can, and then set your DI to get the sound you want. DI goes to the house, amp becomes a monitor. That way, once the show is rolling, you can adjust your amp as you need to to hear yourself best without affecting the house.

 

[agedhorse]

I think a lot of this depends on level matching and gain structure... if the preamp delivers line level and the head can not accept line level without distorting, or if adjusting thing s so that the gain structure works ok but the noise floor is unacceptably high, then you would be much better going into the power amp (fx return or otherwise) would end up being more practical.

If your head can accept line level, and if the noise floor is ok, there's nothing wrong with doing it this way either, (assuming the resulting tone works for you)

 

[Kro]

I wouldn't bypass the preamp on the amp. Set your head as flat as you can, and then set your DI to get the sound you want. DI goes to the house, amp becomes a monitor. That way, once the show is rolling, you can adjust your amp as you need to to hear yourself best without affecting the house.

The other way around is completely viable as well, and my preferred method. Something like this:

Bass into SansAmp set relatively flat with a bit of SansAmp flavoring, then split to board and amp input.

Soundguy gets an easy to use "pre" amp signal to work with for FOH (with a little drive and mic'd speaker sim), and then I can set my amp however my band and I want to best cut through on-stage without it impacting the FOH mix.

Given that my general assumption is usually that the tone I want on stage isn't usually what's best for the venue, it makes everyone happy.

 

[BadExample]

What it boils down to, is what sounds good is good. If you hate turning the knobs and into the power amp section sounds good, run with it. If you enjoy experimentation, go back to preamp in and play around with both the integrated preamp and the external. If it's over driving the input to death, try the active in or pad switch if you have it on the bass amp, and/or cut the output at the pedal pre if that's an option.

Makes everybody happy.

Then why don't I feel happy?

 

[spigmu]

But I never found the SVT 3 to have a particular sound worth writing home about (and I have owned every SVT ever made except a 5 and a 7).

Isn't that kind of like "The food in this restaurant is so mediocre. Waiter! Bring me some more! Yeah, pretty bland stuff. Been coming here for years". : )

 

[Kro]

Then why don't I feel happy?

Heart three sizes too small?

 

[two fingers]

Heart three sizes too small?

I like it.....