Vintage German parlour looks classical but needs steel strings?

[Iristone]

I've got a 1950 Musima (from former East Germany) "classical" guitar which confuses me a bit.
Construction-wise it has a braceless arched back similar to a Guild, which probably shouldn't be seen on a classical guitar (and certainly impressive even for a steel stringer) of that vintage. Overall it looks like a 7/8 classical guitar with classical bridge, slotted heads, and no adjustable truss rod, although the fretboard looks a bit narrow (but still non-radiused).

Currently it doesn't sound very good with nylon strings. It doesn't seem to hold a candle to my girlfriend's 7/8 Soviet maple classical. The strings feel as if they were too loose and couldn't drive the top, even though they're actually regular tension.
From what I've read, some of the vintage German parlour guitars (such as some Höfners) were designed to accept steel strings while looking like a classical guitar. Maybe I should try it as an acoustic parlour with light-gauge steel strings for safety?

 

[bass player 53]

Your identification says you're from Beijing, and you're asking a bunch of bass players about a parlor guitar? Why?
There's an excellent musical instrument company in Beijing, Eastman Music Company; they make their outstanding guitars in a factory there. I would go over there and see if they can help you.

 

[Jeff Scott]

...you're asking a bunch of bass players about a parlor guitar? Why?

You do realize this particular forum is about guitars and guitarists. If you are neither then why are you here to offer advice?

 

[Jeff Scott]

I've got a 1950 Musima (from former East Germany) "classical" guitar which confuses me a bit.
Construction-wise it has a braceless arched back similar to a Guild, which probably shouldn't be seen on a classical guitar (and certainly impressive even for a steel stringer) of that vintage. Overall it looks like a 7/8 classical guitar with classical bridge, slotted heads, and no adjustable truss rod, although the fretboard looks a bit narrow (but still non-radiused).

Currently it doesn't sound very good with nylon strings. It doesn't seem to hold a candle to my girlfriend's 7/8 Soviet maple classical. The strings feel as if they were too loose and couldn't drive the top, even though they're actually regular tension.
From what I've read, some of the vintage German parlour guitars (such as some Höfners) were designed to accept steel strings while looking like a classical guitar. Maybe I should try it as an acoustic parlour with light-gauge steel strings for safety?

How is the top braced? Classical fan bracing? Ladder bracing?

 

[bass player 53]

You do realize this particular forum is about guitars and guitarists. If you are neither then why are you here to offer advice?

I have been playing guitar for 60 years, as a pro and otherwise. I have an extensive collection of acoustic and electric guitars and guitar amps.
The OP lives in Beijing and I stand by my comments. I don't appreciate your passive-aggressiveness. If you don't like my post, please move on.

 

[Michedelic]

I have been playing guitar for 60 years, as a pro and otherwise. I have an extensive collection of acoustic and electric guitars and guitar amps.
The OP lives in Beijing and I stand by my comments. I don't appreciate your passive-aggressiveness. If you don't like my post, please move on.

Oh, Jeff's passive aggressive? Projecting much?

 

[bass player 53]

Oh, Jeff's passive aggressive? Projecting much?

And you're contributing what? Butt in much?

 

[Albert Ross]

How about trying lighter gauge steel strings tuned down a whole step? If that tension seems OK, then tune up a half step. And if that's OK, then tune to standard pitch.

 

[sunbeast]

I have been playing guitar for 60 years, as a pro and otherwise. I have an extensive collection of acoustic and electric guitars and guitar amps.
The OP lives in Beijing and I stand by my comments. I don't appreciate your passive-aggressiveness. If you don't like my post, please move on.

You are in the Talkbass "Guitar for Bassists" subforum yet asking why the OP is asking bassists about a guitar. You qualifying that with your 60 years playing guitar while also adding zero useful info to the OP doesn't really compute. What does the OP living in Beijing have to do with anything? You actually think its useful to suggest the OP go over to some random guitar factory in one of the largest cities on Earth (larger area-wise than some US states, and larger population-wise than most of them) to ask them about a completely unrelated instrument not made by them? Would you send a Mexican asking about a vintage G&L bass bass to the Mexican Fender factory to ask questions about it? The internet is amazing because you can throw a question out and have access to much of the world of certain niche knowledge. The internet is even better when people who don't know answers or valuable directions to those answers (like just prompting and copying AI searches, as you also tend to do) just don't engage and let the people who do have the answers and valuable contributions take up that space.

 

[bass player 53]

You are in the Talkbass "Guitar for Bassists" subforum yet asking why the OP is asking bassists about a guitar. You qualifying that with your 60 years playing guitar while also adding zero useful info to the OP doesn't really compute. What does the OP living in Beijing have to do with anything? You actually think its useful to suggest the OP go over to some random guitar factory in one of the largest cities on Earth (larger than some US states) to ask them about a completely unrelated instrument not made by them? Would you send a Mexican asking about a vintage G&L bass bass to the Mexican Fender factory to ask questions about it? The internet is amazing because you can throw a question out and have access to much of the world of certain niche knowledge. The internet is even better when people who don't know answers or valuable directions to those answers (like just prompting and copying AI searches, as you also tend to do) just don't engage and let the people who do have the answers take up that space.

Yes, exactly. Go over (by appointment) to one of the best acoustic guitar makers in the world to get their help. Exactly. If I lived in the same city as any top bass or guitar builder, I would do exactly that. The Eastman company produces hand built guitars- they are not a factory.
The OP's question is a very specific technical question that I seriously doubt anyone on TB is qualified to answer.
What AI searches are you referring to that I do? Answer: None. I have a large collection of Eastman guitars, some of which I've shown, and have corresponded many times with their American head of service.
And what, exactly is your contribution, other than acting like a troll?
Again, since you obviously have nothing to contribute, please move on. I believe my advice will be more productive to the OP than any of the endless questions and half answers he is likely to get here.

 

[sunbeast]

I've got a 1950 Musima (from former East Germany) "classical" guitar which confuses me a bit.
Construction-wise it has a braceless arched back similar to a Guild, which probably shouldn't be seen on a classical guitar (and certainly impressive even for a steel stringer) of that vintage. Overall it looks like a 7/8 classical guitar with classical bridge, slotted heads, and no adjustable truss rod, although the fretboard looks a bit narrow (but still non-radiused).

Currently it doesn't sound very good with nylon strings. It doesn't seem to hold a candle to my girlfriend's 7/8 Soviet maple classical. The strings feel as if they were too loose and couldn't drive the top, even though they're actually regular tension.
From what I've read, some of the vintage German parlour guitars (such as some Höfners) were designed to accept steel strings while looking like a classical guitar. Maybe I should try it as an acoustic parlour with light-gauge steel strings for safety?

As @Jeff Scott asked, what is the bracing on the top? That will ultimately be a big deciding factor in what kind of strings it can accommodate tension-wise, though even if the top is adequately braced often a classical-style bridge plate also might not be able to handle significant tension. Alot of older parlor guitars designed for gut or nylon strings wouldn't be able to handle most typical metal acoustic strings from today longterm, but there are some lighter-tension options around that aren't nylon that should work- though whether they add significant volume vs a nylon set is tough to say (more treble and mids can at least sound like more volume in any case). The guitar might just not have alot of volume on tap depending on the design and the wood. D'addario Silk and Steel is a relatively economical low tension hybrid option you could experiment with that shouldn't damage the instrument. I use a Thomastik low-tension metal hybrid set (Thomastik-Infeld KR116 Classic S Rope Core Flatwound Nylon/Silver-Plated Copper Acoustic Guitar Strings - .016-.039 Normal Tension | Sweetwater ) on one instrument (actually a classical guitar design) and love them, but that's an expensive experiment!

I do think you might tap into a larger audience of people who might be familiar with your particular instrument and string options in general for quirky older instruments over on the Acousticguitarforum.com

 

[wompwomp]

I've got a 1950 Musima (from former East Germany) "classical" guitar which confuses me a bit.
Construction-wise it has a braceless arched back similar to a Guild, which probably shouldn't be seen on a classical guitar (and certainly impressive even for a steel stringer) of that vintage. Overall it looks like a 7/8 classical guitar with classical bridge, slotted heads, and no adjustable truss rod, although the fretboard looks a bit narrow (but still non-radiused).

Currently it doesn't sound very good with nylon strings. It doesn't seem to hold a candle to my girlfriend's 7/8 Soviet maple classical. The strings feel as if they were too loose and couldn't drive the top, even though they're actually regular tension.
From what I've read, some of the vintage German parlour guitars (such as some Höfners) were designed to accept steel strings while looking like a classical guitar. Maybe I should try it as an acoustic parlour with light-gauge steel strings for safety?

i've been dealing with a similar situation myself i'm having a 1918 Gibson mandocello restored and I am fussing myself to death over the choice of strings. .

this instrument is 24.75" scale length so it's the typical Gibson guitar scale length but the strings are double coursed and tuned in fifths to CGDA. like your instrument it has an unbraced arch back. the carved arch top was very lightly braced with only a sound bar underneath the oval hole but my luthier is fitting an x-brace to replace this.

a pretty niche instrument and notoriously hard to source strings for the C course. I have a couple of sets that I've bought but i'm still very wary about this choice. otoh I dont' want to shortchange tone but I also don't want to damage a fairly rare quite vintage instrument...

anyways maybe check out d'addario's tension calculator it might help you find a makeup that improves the sound safely . good luck !

 

[gln1955]

Yes, exactly. Go over (by appointment) to one of the best acoustic guitar makers in the world to get their help. Exactly. If I lived in the same city as any top bass or guitar builder, I would do exactly that. The Eastman company produces hand built guitars- they are not a factory.
The OP's question is a very specific technical question that I seriously doubt anyone on TB is qualified to answer.
What AI searches are you referring to that I do? Answer: None. I have a large collection of Eastman guitars, some of which I've shown, and have corresponded many times with their American head of service.
And what, exactly is your contribution, other than acting like a troll?
Again, since you obviously have nothing to contribute, please move on. I believe my advice will be more productive to the OP than any of the endless questions and half answers he is likely to get here.

Accusing others of being a troll?

Cognitive disconnect here.

 

[bass player 53]

Accusing others of being a troll?

Cognitive disconnect here.

I took some time to read some of your recent posts. They seem, to me, to have a rather negative vibe.
Your use of the term "cognitive disconnect" is also completely incorrect.
Again, as usual, you don't have anything factual to contribute here, either.
Whatever.

 

[sunbeast]

Yes, exactly. Go over (by appointment) to one of the best acoustic guitar makers in the world to get their help. Exactly. If I lived in the same city as any top bass or guitar builder, I would do exactly that. The Eastman company produces hand built guitars- they are not a factory.
The OP's question is a very specific technical question that I seriously doubt anyone on TB is qualified to answer.
What AI searches are you referring to that I do? Answer: None. I have a large collection of Eastman guitars, some of which I've shown, and have corresponded many times with their American head of service.
And what, exactly is your contribution, other than acting like a troll?
Again, since you obviously have nothing to contribute, please move on. I believe my advice will be more productive to the OP than any of the endless questions and half answers he is likely to get here.

Eastman is still a factory no matter how much is made by hand, and they uses CNCs like 99% of other builders these days. It is quite literally a "guitar factory" in the same way that Fender Mexico or Rickenbacker USA are.

You posted a picture of a useless AI response to a recent thread asking about the history of a specific fretless bass just a few weeks ago, when I ignored your profile. I stupidly unignored it out of sheer curiosity here, hopefully I have the self-control to not make that mistake again.

 

[sunbeast]

Eastman has made their guitars by hand. If the recent video shows otherwise, then older videos show something else. Eastman was an orchestral string instrument company, made by hand.
I did not use AI in this answer. I have several excellent Eastman guitars, a lot of which are reviewed on YouTube, by experts such as The Acoustic Shoppe, who point out that they are hand made. There are older videos on YouTube showing the guitars being hand made in Beijing.
If you're afraid of AI, you're going to have a troubled life.
If you want to act stupid, by all means, indulge yourself.

BTW, this is the TB stated policy on AI:

Using AI to generate post content is not allowed. Using a quoted example of information you received by AI is permitted within the context of your own post.

Eastman got CNC machines several years ago now, not surprising given the large number of guitars they produce these days. I doubt you'll see factory videos showing those off though since the "handmade" thing is part of their mythology and selling point- and I don't mean that as a dunk on their quality. I've owned an Eastman OM and it was a phenomenal guitar for the price. No doubt they do more handwork than Fender Mexico does at this point, but it really doesn't matter and is all irrelevant to this thread.

I don't care about the Talkbass rules about AI, it remains worthless without human filtering of the information it presents since it only functions by repeating what it itself has been fed, which is often conflicting info across the internet. You can even get two conflicting answers depending on how you word your prompt. You don't do that when you just post a picture of an unverified AI response as I've seen you do. It offers literally nothing to the conversation.

 

[bass player 53]

Eastman got CNC machines several years ago now, not surprising given the large number of guitars they produce these days. No doubt they do more handwork than Fender Mexico does at this point, but it really doesn't matter and is all irrelevant to this thread.

Ok, fine. Look, I tried to help the OP.
He lives in Beijing. People there know how to travel. The Eastman company has skilled luthiers. If he takes my advice, fine. If not, fine. I have no beef with you, or any others.
I try to be helpful, and not snarky. This is TB, where we're supposed to talk about bass stuff. I don't know, or care, why there's a guitar group on here.
Please accept my peace offer.

 

[ajkula66]

From what I've read, some of the vintage German parlour guitars (such as some Höfners) were designed to accept steel strings while looking like a classical guitar. Maybe I should try it as an acoustic parlour with light-gauge steel strings for safety?

Having seen/played more than my fair share of Musimas and other similar stuff from behind The Iron Curtain I'll say this much:

Musima never really excelled at classical guitars. Their archtops/electrics were better in most respects. I wouldn't be all that surprised if it is an actual nylon string instrument which just doesn't sound/play good.

If the tuners are plastic on the inside of the slots as they would be on a conventional classical guitar, make no mistake it is made for nylons and the chances of the bridge lift from metal strings is very real. We've done a lot of that as kids with Musimas, Cremonas, Melodijas and the like...not the best idea...

Good luck.

 

[Iristone]

Some observations:
(1) The tuner posts are steel, really interesting. Maybe that's a good sign to use with steel strings?
(2) Not 100% sure of the internal belly bracing, but I can see a quite large, green (why?) brace right under the soundhole (can't see past there).
(3) I'll likely try it with light gauge silk-and-steel or pure nickel strings, and see how it works with a soundhole pickup as an electro-acoustic (somehow I think it'd work well with a parlour body).
(4) I've heard good things about Musima archtops (specifically Records), but I know they typically fetch far higher prices than my parlour. I'd like to try it one day, set up for jazz with flatwound strings.
(5) The good-sounding classical guitar could have been a Melodiya 7/8
(6) Eastman is an awesome brand of not just guitars, but also amazing violins and mandolins and brasswinds (sort of a Höfner of China?). I've just not yet had the fortune of owning one of their instruments but one day...

 

[zontar]

I would proceed very carefully.
Silk and steel might work.
You say nylon strings don't sound good, but what nylon strings?
Some brands are better than others.
And what tension?
Nylon strings are typically sold by tension, not gauge.
A different tension might help.