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Vintage Old Fender - I don't get it.
- Thread starter darwin-bass
- Start date
What i don't "get" is why so many people on this forum feel the need to tell everyone on a daily basis that they "don't get" the allure of vintage basses. I know, you don't like them. I get that. So what? No matter what the vintage enthusiasts say, your not going to be convinced that vintage instruments are better, so what is the point of bringing it up all the time?
I'm a straight man, but i would never go and tell a gay or lesbian person, "i don't get it" and ask them to explain themselves.. and definitely not every day at that! I'm content with not getting it. But i respect their choice to like what they like and would never try to change or convince someone otherwise. So my question is..
Why can't you just be content "not getting it" an go on with your life, playing your brand new shiny basses? You know what i think? I think you really want to get it deep down.
I'm a straight man, but i would never go and tell a gay or lesbian person, "i don't get it" and ask them to explain themselves.. and definitely not every day at that! I'm content with not getting it. But i respect their choice to like what they like and would never try to change or convince someone otherwise. So my question is..
Why can't you just be content "not getting it" an go on with your life, playing your brand new shiny basses? You know what i think? I think you really want to get it deep down.
That's because they aren't inherently better. That's what the vintage fanatics don't seem to get.
OK, I'll expound a bit.
Single-action truss rod: Only compresses. Can't correct back bow. Squeezes the neck lengthwise as it straightens the neck. Contributes to uneven s-shaped necks (high spots near the neck pocket).
No other reinforcement: Easier to develop a twisted neck. Puts more force on the truss rod to counteract string pressure which helps warp the neck due to the single-action truss rod compression.
Heavy tuners: Makes the bass neck heavy. Your left hand does more work holding it up and can't be quite as fluid as you play.
Cheap bridges: Not as adjustable, not as ridged so you lose some energy / sustain due to bridge vibration (in theory).
Non-angled headstock: String hold-down buttons put extra bends in the string that can contribute to tuning issues (not usually though). The lack of a hold-down for the A string means you have to be careful when winding strings to get enough windings on the post to create some downward angled for the A string as it passes over the nut or you end up with tuning and sustain issues.
Fender has admitted that all but the headstock angle are issues as they have correcting them in their high-end basses.
I fully realize that many will rightly remark that these issues are part of the sound of the original basses and fixing them is part of why the new stuff doesn't sound like the old stuff.
- Keith -
Not trying to start an argument, but if you want to talk about reliability, a fifty year old amp that still works, and sounds great is the epitome of reliability.
The previous owner is no longer alive, and I fully expect it to serve the next owner well after I am dead.
I expect the PF-500 that I bought a year, or two ago to end up in a landfill some day, because the components used in its design will eventually become obsolete.
I prefer the tone I get with the original style thin plate, threaded saddle bridges.
I don't "get" any form of gear snobbery. Loving ONLY Fender. Hating Fender. Loving ONLY vintage. Hating vintage. Loving ONLY boutique. Hating boutique. Loving ONLY Rickenbacker. Hating Rickenbacker. Loving ONLY Gibson. Hating Gibson.
I just LOVE my Fender Jazz Bass, (as well as my two Squier Affinity instruments,) and I'll bet you there are a ton of Gibsons, Rickenbackers, boutique basses, and vintage instruments I would also love.
Maybe I'm just easy, but here's what I think:
"Does it feel good? Does it sound good? Does it play good? Does it look good? Must be good!"
If you like it, it must be great. "Not getting Vintage Old Fenders" is just another form of gear snobbery. I don't care WHAT you play. And I don't care whether or not YOU care what I play.
Now, everyone get back to practicing. There's a better bass player who wants your job!
I just LOVE my Fender Jazz Bass, (as well as my two Squier Affinity instruments,) and I'll bet you there are a ton of Gibsons, Rickenbackers, boutique basses, and vintage instruments I would also love.
Maybe I'm just easy, but here's what I think:
"Does it feel good? Does it sound good? Does it play good? Does it look good? Must be good!"
If you like it, it must be great. "Not getting Vintage Old Fenders" is just another form of gear snobbery. I don't care WHAT you play. And I don't care whether or not YOU care what I play.
Now, everyone get back to practicing. There's a better bass player who wants your job!
And why do you need them to?
Their instruments are fine examples of music history, and each has its own story.
Quit crapping on other peoples' dreams.
Love my Fenders. Pre 70's (pre-CBS) for the best ones. I like new basses too, but if I'm going out to play a Motown type gig, a Fender P-Bass is the way to go for me.
I've also never had a problem with the single action truss rod. If I loosen it, the neck bows forward (naturally as it has string tension on it). If I tighten it, it counteracts the string tension. Simple as that.
I've never had the A string problem that people talk about, and as long as a vintage Fender is well taken care of, it can be a great bass. My hands just feel at home on one. I like the heavy tuners. They hurt more if someone needs to be hit upside the head.
I've never had a problem with the bridges either. They adjust as much as they need to.
Do I think the vintage Fenders are overpriced in today's market? Yes! I do! Then again, Sadowsky basses cost too much if you ask me as well.
It's like comparing a 50's classic car to a new car. They're not the same, and don't need to be compared. You can like one or the other, or you can like both. I like new and old basses. My favorite old bass isn't an old Fender, but rather a 1962 Harmony H-22. Every bass has its own character and use in my book.
I've also never had a problem with the single action truss rod. If I loosen it, the neck bows forward (naturally as it has string tension on it). If I tighten it, it counteracts the string tension. Simple as that.
I've never had the A string problem that people talk about, and as long as a vintage Fender is well taken care of, it can be a great bass. My hands just feel at home on one. I like the heavy tuners. They hurt more if someone needs to be hit upside the head.
I've never had a problem with the bridges either. They adjust as much as they need to.
Do I think the vintage Fenders are overpriced in today's market? Yes! I do! Then again, Sadowsky basses cost too much if you ask me as well.
It's like comparing a 50's classic car to a new car. They're not the same, and don't need to be compared. You can like one or the other, or you can like both. I like new and old basses. My favorite old bass isn't an old Fender, but rather a 1962 Harmony H-22. Every bass has its own character and use in my book.
Maybe, maybe not. That doesn't make them better instruments, just old instruments.
Some only tell the story of sitting in their case under a bed or in a closet for decades being rarely or maybe never used for their intended purpose. And they are the instruments people pay a premium for.
Dream on.
I strongly support players buying new basses, simply because I never buy new and prefer to have others take the depreciation hit for me.
These threads go nowhere, yet pop up every couple of months. They're dumb and pointless and a waste of bandwidth.
I don't understand why people like the colour blue.
Isn't green good enough?
These threads go nowhere, yet pop up every couple of months. They're dumb and pointless and a waste of bandwidth.
I don't understand why people like the colour blue.
Isn't green good enough?
Why are they worth so much? Old Fenders, like every other manufactured "thing", are worth what people are willing to pay: no more, no less. Old Fender basses are "worth" so much because people think they are, and are willing to pay that much. Sort of like how people are willing to pay so much for a Single Action Army Colt (Remington or S&W Schofields were better), or a Winchester lever action rifle (Marlin was far better - still is), or an old Mustang (almost any car would be better). People want them, and are willing to pay for them. Simple as that. I have one ('78 P-bass), and like it; but I've had it for 24 years, and certainly wouldn't pay what it's "worth" now. My '73 Rickenbacker, on the other hand...
). People want them, and are willing to pay for them. Simple as that. I have one ('78 P-bass), and like it; but I've had it for 24 years, and certainly wouldn't pay what it's "worth" now. My '73 Rickenbacker, on the other hand...
Some have commented here on the vintage tone of older instruments. I'm willing to bet that very very few people could pick the age of an instrument in a proper blind test. This 1958 P Bass sounds just as "modern" as a current bass to me.
*Is there any way to put youtube clips inline in posts?
*Is there any way to put youtube clips inline in posts?
But I bet quite a few here have played enough to know the averages on what makes their bandmates ears perk up. Vintage Fenders are not all great. Some kinda suck. Some are really special. ...Just like any other quality-but-mass-produced instrument.
Why would someone pay 40 million dollars for a painting that's just streaks of black on canvas that looks to me like a chimp could have done it. Who knows, why care?
Just buy whatever cranks your tractor.
When I was single and in my twenties (mid eighties) I picked up two two Pre-CBS fenders. One a basket case 53 P that I had restored and the other a '61 Stack-Knob Jazz that had a horrible walnut refin that a luthier friend of mine later refinned in nitro sunburst as it should be.
The question of whether they are really special is an interesting and confusing one for me. I have had lots of players pick up the 53 and think it is fantastic. To me, it has always sounded weak and unimpressive. I can't escape the feeling of history I get playing it, so I will never get rid of it. In fact, I'm considering doing a rockabilly side project, and I am pretty sure I'll break it out for that.
The 61 J is another story. It is simply the best sounding and playing Jazz I have ever played or heard. I remember taking it to Bass Central to try out an Eden amp and a great player who was finalizing a Joe Osbourne purchase saw mine and asked if he could try it out. After 15 minutes of some of the nicest bass sounds I ever heard(Beaver even rolled out to see what was making those sounds) he left clearly not as sure about his Lakland purchase.
So as you can see, I don't completely buy into the idea that vintage means better. But if it's my choice, great vintage basses will beat out great modern basses.
The question of whether they are really special is an interesting and confusing one for me. I have had lots of players pick up the 53 and think it is fantastic. To me, it has always sounded weak and unimpressive. I can't escape the feeling of history I get playing it, so I will never get rid of it. In fact, I'm considering doing a rockabilly side project, and I am pretty sure I'll break it out for that.
The 61 J is another story. It is simply the best sounding and playing Jazz I have ever played or heard. I remember taking it to Bass Central to try out an Eden amp and a great player who was finalizing a Joe Osbourne purchase saw mine and asked if he could try it out. After 15 minutes of some of the nicest bass sounds I ever heard(Beaver even rolled out to see what was making those sounds) he left clearly not as sure about his Lakland purchase.
So as you can see, I don't completely buy into the idea that vintage means better. But if it's my choice, great vintage basses will beat out great modern basses.
I tell you what. I'm looking for a 60s P. If you have one of these inferior instruments ship it to me.
PLEASE!
PLEASE!
