Vintage Stingray finish ruined: please help!

[LanEvo]

I recently traded a Status Empathy Series II for this early MM Stingray. I believe it's a 1976 model because it's got the early pickup with staggered pole pieces. At some point, it was "refinished" by what looks like Krylon home appliance paint sprayed directly onto the original (natural) finish. I have three questions:

(1) Is there a way to strip the flaking white paint while preserving the original finish underneath? I'd like to avoid stripping/sanding down to bare wood if possible.

(2) Can you recommend someone to do this work? I'm not skilled enough to do it myself and I'm happy to pay a pro to do a proper job.

(3) If we do need to strip down to bare wood, is there a way to do an aged finish that won't look awful? I've seen plenty of "relic" nitro finishes, but is that even a thing with '70s urethane finishes? I'm assuming MM used urethane back then.

 

[Rocket Queen]

(2) Can you recommend someone to do this work? I'm not skilled enough to do it myself and I'm happy to pay a pro to do a proper job.

Pat Wilkins

 

[Barticus]

In this thread, @VeryTallBassist found a great refinisher. They did an amazing job on his Spector bass and they’re also in the New York area, which may be more convenient than shipping your body across the US to have it redone.

I’ve heard good thing’s about Sim’s as well, but I’ve never used them and I’ve never used Wilkins either.

SimsCustomGuitars

Specializing in guitar painting & guitar refinishing. We restore guitars as well as build custom guitars. Checkout our work at www.SimsCustomShop.com & https://www.instagram.com/simscustomshopguitars/

youtube.com

 

[LanEvo]

I’ve heard of both Wilkins and Sims, but I understand that neither of them offer aged/reliced finishes.

A brand new shiny body would look out of place when the neck, pickguard, and hardware are sporting 50 years worth of play wear.

 

[darwin-bass]

I would think it nearly impossible to remove the new finish while preserving the original finish. Strip it to bare wood and finish right. Hire a pro for pro results.

 

[Pilgrim]

You're not going to get the second finish off without taking off the first one. Don't even plan on that as an option.

You CAN do it - if you buy Dan Erlewine's book on guitar repair, study it, do research online, and buy top quality finish materials from some place like Stew-Mac. The sequence is stripping, sanding, sealing toe wood, sanding, base coast, sanding, finish coats (multiple), sanding, then polishing.

 

[Element Zero]

To each their own. I’d leave it as is. Leaves a lot of room to make up your own back story behind it.

 

[Altitude]

It looks cool to me like it is.

Pat Wilkins is the gold standard in body refinishes. He has refinished one of my basses and the work is exquisite. As you say, I don’t believe he does aging.

MJT guitars does the most business in aged finish that I know of. I do not have any personal experience with them however.

Vintage Refinishes — MJT Aged Guitars

Vintage Refinishes It's where it all began for us.

www.mjtagedfinishes.com

Best luck!

 

[T_Bone_TL]

Since you prefer to preserve the original finish:

If the original finish is intact, and the white is already peeling that much, a plastic scraper should get it off with minimal damage to the original finish. Tedious but not a high-skill method, so you might go far on your own. An old credit card can work. I guess they make plastic razor blades for the same purpose?

At somewhat higher skill (more risk) a real razor blade will also peel it off even if it's well-adhered. But you may not need to go there. If you happen to be near a university with an art conservation graduate program, some subset of those students will know how to use the steel razor blade correctly, and you might be able to get the job done under the eye of an instructor by students needing more practical experience for somewhat less cost than a full-on graduated conservator would charge.

Here, perhaps? The Conservation Center | The Institute of Fine Arts, NYU

Depending what the original finish is, there may be far more aggressive chemical techniques that will also work without damaging it. Polyesters are very robust. But I don't know what the original finish is in this case. Others here might have a pretty good guess based on factory and timeframe.

 

[Swamp_Ronin]

Since you prefer to preserve the original finish:

If the original finish is intact, and the white is already peeling that much, a plastic scraper should get it off with minimal damage to the original finish. Tedious but not a high-skill method, so you might go far on your own. An old credit card can work. I guess they make plastic razor blades for the same purpose?

At somewhat higher skill (more risk) a real razor blade will also peel it off even if it's well-adhered. But you may not need to go there. If you happen to be near a university with an art conservation graduate program, some subset of those students will know how to use the steel razor blade correctly, and you might be able to get the job done under the eye of an instructor by students needing more practical experience for somewhat less cost than a full-on graduated conservator would charge.

Here, perhaps? The Conservation Center | The Institute of Fine Arts, NYU

Depending what the original finish is, there may be far more aggressive chemical techniques that will also work without damaging it. Polyesters are very robust. But I don't know what the original finish is in this case. Others here might have a pretty good guess based on factory and timeframe.

Not a luthier at all, but this seems like a plausible answer. That clear-coat underneath is probably pretty tough, and pretty thick too. You could even polish/ very lightly sand the original coat after removing the white, and with a little favor from the gods, still have the original finish.

With this bass, It's worth the trouble, because nothing is cooler than an original stingray, and refinishing something like that tanks the value.

 

[bherman]

In reading your original post, I don't get the sense that you are ultimately looking for a "relic" (ie, beat-up) finish, you just want to get back to a warm, natural finish. I am a woodworker so if it was mine, I'd attempt to remove the paint finish via manual methods as described above. But realistically, removing the paint will damage the base finish. Any of the good refinishers such as Pat Wilkins could strip it and give it a new natural finish that would have the warm "golden glow" of the underlying finish. I'd check with them and see what they say. It's not hard to do a natural finish that has that vintage glow to it, without looking beat up like a fake relic finish.

 

[Swamp_Ronin]

In reading your original post, I don't get the sense that you are ultimately looking for a "relic" (ie, beat-up) finish, you just want to get back to a warm, natural finish. I am a woodworker so if it was mine, I'd attempt to remove the paint finish via manual methods as described above. But realistically, removing the paint will damage the base finish. Any of the good refinishers such as Pat Wilkins could strip it and give it a new natural finish that would have the warm "golden glow" of the underlying finish. I'd check with them and see what they say. It's not hard to do a natural finish that has that vintage glow to it, without looking beat up like a fake relic finish.

I think you might be right, but even if it was refinished by Leo Fender himself, it would still be a refinish. I would try to do as much research as possible to avoid doing a refinish if you could help it. On the other hand, it's already "refinished" so there's that.

 

[LanEvo]

It looks cool to me like it is.

It may look OK in the photo, but in real life it looks pretty dismal. The bass plays and sounds great, plus it’s a cool (and relatively rare) early Stngray. I feel like it deserves better.

In reading your original post, I don't get the sense that you are ultimately looking for a "relic" (ie, beat-up) finish, you just want to get back to a warm, natural finish.

Not looking for a fake relic job as such. But I think pairing a brand spanking new body with a neck/hardware showing 50 years worth of patina will look weird.

My hope was to preserve the original finish (sounds like that’s not likely). If refinishing is the only option, I’d like to have it done in a way that won’t scream “I was repainted last week.” I’ve heard of aged nitro finishes, but not with polyurethane. I understand the early ‘76 Stingrays were nitro, so maybe that isn’t a crazy idea.

 

[Robert_303]

You might give Simple Green a try. It is a heavy duty cleaner but model car guys found out it works as a great paint stripper. I build models and have used it many times to strip paint from old builds. On cars you basically soak the car in a plastic container for a day or two. But I am sure you could use towels and just keep them wet. Chances are it won't effect the original finish but I would try it somewhere it doesn't matter.

Here is a link to their web page:
can't post a link but just look up simplegreen.com/products/all-purpose-cleaner/

It is worth a try...

 

[ChrisAlan]

I recently traded a Status Empathy Series II for this early MM Stingray.

You made a horrible mistake in this trade in the long run.

 

[Uncle Ernie]

Sorry to derail, but what a lovely baby blue

 

[Low Main]

You can do a solvent test with a cotton swab in an inconspicuous area (under the bridge maybe).

If it's something like Krylon and there's a polyester finish underneath, you mat be able to remove the aerosol finish with a solvent like lacquer thinner without harming the finish below.

But it's hard to know what you've got without being able to examine it.

I don't know the history of early MM finishes, but we should be clear the prefix "poly" doesn't mean that "polyurethane" and "polyester" are interchangeable. They are two different resins and two different finish systems.

Most cured urethanes are resistant to lacquer thinner (especially if they're two part catalyzed urethanes) and polyester certainly is. But early G&L basses, which came after MM, do have solvent reversible finishes so there's reason to think that the MM basses do as well. Hopefully, someone will have more detailed info on this.

In my conservation work, I've seen people do remarkable things with simple materials. If the overfinish is not well attached to the original finish (which looks possible based on the way the overfinish is flaking off), you may be able to do what a colleague of mine once did: remove the overfinish by burnishing good quality packing tape (Scotch brand, etc.) onto the overfinish and then yanking it off, taking the overfinish with it and leaving the original finish intact. When it works, it's cheap magic and fun.

If you decide to scrape off the overfinish, a great tool is a scrap of Lexan or other sheet acrylic or polycarbonate with a bevel ground onto an edge with a belt sander to create a working edge that's akin to a chisel or scraper. With this, you have much more control than with a single edge razor blade. I've removed entire overfinishes with those types of tools and no chemicals involved, just mechanical removal. Tedious but satisfying.

My hope is that if you get the overfinish carefully removed, the original finish that lies underneath will be worthy.

 

[Sharko]

Is it currently ruined? Or is it so good it just blew your mind? It makes me want to go do this to one of my basses…

 

[Thumpin6string]

If the original finish is shiny under the repaint, you could try blowing the paint off with compressed air. You would use an air blower attachment on a compressor. Start blowing at the edge of the peeling paint. It will probably come off in sheets. Use eye protection. I actually stripped a whole car that was repainted over the unsanded finish. It's worth a shot and costs pretty much nothing. Good luck!

 

[Turnaround]

I would think it nearly impossible to remove the new finish while preserving the original finish. Strip it to bare wood and finish right. Hire a pro for pro results.

it's entirely possible, though it can get costly. In the days that I worked as an antique furniture restoration specialist, I did lots of over-finish removal while preserving the original finish beneath. I remember one case where the overpaint was removed with a scalpel one square inch at a time.

It's important to determine what the top coat and the original finishes are. That will dictate what approach is used, be it chemical stripping, scraping or the scalpel technique.