• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

volume loss on active basses trough trace ELF

Jari vanlaere

Jari vanlaere

Feb 4, 2019
12
17
40
Belgium
#1
Hi,

I've got this wierd thing with my trace elliot Elf head.
I have the amp now for 2 maybe 3 months (so rather new)
(I play trough a 4ohm, 12 inch eden cab, mostly, just as new)
never had to put it above ... 30ish% of it's capabilities, but only played passive until 2 weeks ago, when i noticed a problem (it does this now about 90% of the time.)


when I play on it with my jazz or precision (both full passive)
the damn thing is loud (as it should be)

when i plug in my Ibanez SG or my Stingray, I have so much volumeloss.
Both gain and volume have to be set to over 75% instead of 30%
and mainly on the gain it stays rather quit and then just gains a massive volumeboost (with much backgroundnoise) after like te 75-80% mark of max.
I opened it up to see what's what but i can't see any soldering problems

so:
- Batteries in basses are new and working well.
- no problems on my other "big-boy" amps (old trace, ashdown, ampeg-pro,...)
- active basses are set up to be +/- as loud/silent as the passive basses for gigs

Questions:
1) anyone else experience the same thing?
2) does the ELF detect active basses and put a -10DB dampener on?
3) if a dampener is put on, can i manually undo it?, and if yes how?
4) if 2 and 3 do not apply, is there something I can do,short of sending it back and not having a rehearsel amp for several weeks...

any imput is appreciated
(and sorry for my mediocre english)
 
  • Like
Reactions: GreyMark, wave rider and dralionux
#2
Jari vanlaere said:
Hi,

I've got this wierd thing with my trace elliot Elf head.
I have the amp now for 2 maybe 3 months (so rather new)
(I play trough a 4ohm, 12 inch eden cab, mostly, just as new)
never had to put it above ... 30ish% of it's capabilities, but only played passive until 2 weeks ago, when i noticed a problem (it does this now about 90% of the time.)


when I play on it with my jazz or precision (both full passive)
the damn thing is loud (as it should be)

when i plug in my Ibanez SG or my Stingray, I have so much volumeloss.
Both gain and volume have to be set to over 75% instead of 30%
and mainly on the gain it stays rather quit and then just gains a massive volumeboost (with much backgroundnoise) after like te 75-80% mark of max.
I opened it up to see what's what but i can't see any soldering problems

so:
- Batteries in basses are new and working well.
- no problems on my other "big-boy" amps (old trace, ashdown, ampeg-pro,...)
- active basses are set up to be +/- as loud/silent as the passive basses for gigs

Questions:
1) anyone else experience the same thing?
2) does the ELF detect active basses and put a -10DB dampener on?
3) if a dampener is put on, can i manually undo it?, and if yes how?
4) if 2 and 3 do not apply, is there something I can do,short of sending it back and not having a rehearsel amp for several weeks...

any imput is appreciated
(and sorry for my mediocre english)
Click to expand...
A clear and considered write up of your issue. Paragraphed! 100/100 perfect English is never required and yours is more like 99/100.

Sorry I have no idea what's up with your gear either because you have done some proper troubleshooting! All I can think is try turning down the active bass at the instrument, or put it through a pedal.

I seriously doubt there is any ''active bass detection damping''.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stigbeve and dralionux
#3
An amp can't tell a passive signal from an active one. That said, active doesn't higher output. My Yamaha 734A is active but has less output than any Fender I had. I would be surprised if the Elf doesn't have enough gain to still clip with a lower input level with the gain and volume dimed out.
 
#4
Jari vanlaere said:
Questions:
1) anyone else experience the same thing?
2) does the ELF detect active basses and put a -10DB dampener on?
3) if a dampener is put on, can i manually undo it?, and if yes how?
4) if 2 and 3 do not apply, is there something I can do,short of sending it back and not having a rehearsel amp for several weeks...

any imput is appreciated
(and sorry for my mediocre english)
Click to expand...

Answers:
1) I haven't.
2) Mine doesn't.
3) N/A
4) I am no technician...but it seems to me that your unit is defective. If I were you, I would bring a warranty claim. You might find that you have voided the warranty by opening the amp though. Good luck and keep us posted!
 
#5
Do you have the possibility to check the exact same scenario with a different head?
-plug in a passive bass, volume 100%, dial in a nice tone on the elf.
-swap for the active, volume 100%, eq neutral; make sure volume loss is still there.
-now remove the speaker, power and instrument cable and use another amp in the same place.

Is the problem now gone?
 
#7
Are you sure you aren't using a TRS cable instead of a standard TS cable?

If the amp uses a TRS jack and floats the ring connection, this could prevent your active bass electronics from turning on when a TRS cable is used. Ring must connect to sleeve (a TS cable does this automatically) for the active electronics to work. Many amps do this as well as part of the input jack, but not all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PacificSeaBass, Scott Shaw, Omega Monkey and 5 others
#10
Ok small update
Did more testing, got several other active basses from friends..

None have the issue, my own ibanez included.. so i think i made an error when i pluggef the ibanez in first time for testing.

The problem does ensue on my stingray, no matter what battery I pop in, leading me to believe the problem is to be found in the electronics in the MM.

When I patched the bass trough a couple soundcards it kind of confirmed that.

It's wierd that the big-boy amps don't have a problem but hey at least i'm on the right track to figuring it out now...
 
  • Like
Reactions: PacificSeaBass, Downunderwonder and Zbysek
#11
Jari vanlaere said:
Ok small update
Did more testing, got several other active basses from friends..

None have the issue, my own ibanez included.. so i think i made an error when i pluggef the ibanez in first time for testing.

The problem does ensue on my stingray, no matter what battery I pop in, leading me to believe the problem is to be found in the electronics in the MM.

When I patched the bass trough a couple soundcards it kind of confirmed that.

It's wierd that the big-boy amps don't have a problem but hey at least i'm on the right track to figuring it out now...
Click to expand...

Fingers crossed! Keep us posted...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Downunderwonder
#12
The ELF compresses the signal pretty strongly. I found this out the other day at a local TV studio taping of my band. Figured I'd just bring my little back up amp for a low volume session, but the room was well treated and we built up volume through our 35 minute set.

My Ibanez has extremely hot passive pickups and every time I dug into the strings a bit, the amp would clamp down and disappear under the drums. I can deal with that by attenuating what I'm doing, but the release time on the compressor was so lengthy that I became disappointed with the amp overall.

So while I know most amps don't necessarily promise to behave well with the gain and master up past noon -- many amps seem loud at 9:00 and 12:00 but then don't really get louder. The way that this amp compresses turned out to not be reasonable for me, and I know that I could get through a gig where (God forbid) my GK goes on the fritz just by using the PA. So off the amp went on Reverb this morning at the UPS store.

Those who play with compression or a lighter touch than I have will probably not have the same experience. My tone is one that interacts with the power section of my amp -- I like to "play" the power amp in a sense -- and the response of the ELF and its oversensitivity to a hot signal coming in turned out to not be for me.
 
#13
Jari vanlaere said:
Ok small update
Did more testing, got several other active basses from friends..

None have the issue, my own ibanez included.. so i think i made an error when i pluggef the ibanez in first time for testing.

The problem does ensue on my stingray, no matter what battery I pop in, leading me to believe the problem is to be found in the electronics in the MM.

When I patched the bass trough a couple soundcards it kind of confirmed that.

It's wierd that the big-boy amps don't have a problem but hey at least i'm on the right track to figuring it out now...
Click to expand...
There's nothing in the MM circuit that would behave like this, so either something has failed, wired wrong, OR somebody modified the circuit and created this problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zbysek
#15
Standalone said:
The ELF compresses the signal pretty strongly. I found this out the other day at a local TV studio taping of my band. Figured I'd just bring my little back up amp for a low volume session, but the room was well treated and we built up volume through our 35 minute set.

My Ibanez has extremely hot passive pickups and every time I dug into the strings a bit, the amp would clamp down and disappear under the drums. I can deal with that by attenuating what I'm doing, but the release time on the compressor was so lengthy that I became disappointed with the amp overall.

So while I know most amps don't necessarily promise to behave well with the gain and master up past noon -- many amps seem loud at 9:00 and 12:00 but then don't really get louder. The way that this amp compresses turned out to not be reasonable for me, and I know that I could get through a gig where (God forbid) my GK goes on the fritz just by using the PA. So off the amp went on Reverb this morning at the UPS store.

Those who play with compression or a lighter touch than I have will probably not have the same experience. My tone is one that interacts with the power section of my amp -- I like to "play" the power amp in a sense -- and the response of the ELF and its oversensitivity to a hot signal coming in turned out to not be for me.
Click to expand...

ELF compresses only if you set the "GAIN rotary control" in the "region of operation" where compression applies. The manual is quite clear on that.

When I want no compression, I set the GAIN control low, and adjust the VOLUME knob for the desired level.

http://traceelliot.com/resources/te-elf-om.pdf
 
  • Like
Reactions: AleMorken and PacificSeaBass
#16
Zbysek said:
ELF compresses only if you set the "GAIN rotary control" in the "region of operation" where compression applies. The manual is quite clear on that.

When I want no compression, I set the GAIN control low, and adjust the VOLUME knob for the desired level.

http://traceelliot.com/resources/te-elf-om.pdf
Click to expand...
Ha, well I got mine used and never read the manual. All good, I've sold it for a few dollars more than I paid, and decided to make the DI my backup amp.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zbysek

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back