Walking bass Jazz

[FenderPHead68]

I decided to take a deep dive in to Jazz. Iive been studying Ed Friedlands book and also Ed fuqua and Jay hungerford. Was wondering do you think its a good idea to have a really solid foundation in Blues changes,2,5,1,rhythym changes before moving on to learning the basic standards these books mention to learn?Or do I just go ahead and start learning some basic standards as well?

 

[buldog5151bass]

With most "jazz blues" there are more chord changes, with deeper melodic and harmonic theory, different flavors, same cake. No reason you can't study both simultaneously.

 

[consectaneus]

I was beginning to make some inroads in walking Jazz bass lines when work interrupted. What you mentioned was how I decided to approach it. Lot of standard repertoire are based on blues and rhythm changes. I figured that those progressions and lines would be applicable to many tunes. Just a way for me to organize and learn the most efficiently I guessed.

 

[Groove Master]

I decided to take a deep dive in to Jazz. Iive been studying Ed Friedlands book and also Ed fuqua and Jay hungerford. Was wondering do you think its a good idea to have a really solid foundation in Blues changes,2,5,1,rhythym changes before moving on to learning the basic standards these books mention to learn?Or do I just go ahead and start learning some basic standards as well?

The most difficult thing about walking bass is not the changes. You learn few approaches and boum you go into changes.

Learn how to walk for a long time over one chord only and make it sound right. Tunes usually have sections with one chord that last more than 2 or 4 beats and this is where the lines get weaker.

 

[Malcolm35]

I decided to take a deep dive in to Jazz. Iive been studying Ed Friedlands book and also Ed fuqua and Jay hungerford. Was wondering do you think its a good idea to have a really solid foundation in Blues changes,2,5,1,rhythym changes before moving on to learning the basic standards these books mention to learn?Or do I just go ahead and start learning some basic standards as well?

I'd recommend both. You do need the basic theory, but, using fake chord or chord charts nothing keeping you from seeing what you can do with some standards.

If you wait on the solid foundations you will never know what you need to be studying to play those standards. It's only you see what you can do.

Let Google help. Call up some fake chord on one of the standards you would like to play, using these search words -- chords, name of the song. .

Good luck.

 

[dreamadream99]

While jazz has its roots in the blues, it is so far removed from any other genre, that my suggestion is to just start your deep dive into jazz. No prerequisite necessary.

my two cents on jazz: in addition to listening, and the importance of swinging eighth notes, the most crucial skill to generating your own walking basslines, is music theory. The best lines are created with the key and the chords in mind. Which is not to say that music theory is a prerequisite — there is nothing wrong with starting out by reading and imitating others thoughtful lines, Then graduating, with the help of music theory, to constructing your own.

 

[Pacman]

I decided to take a deep dive in to Jazz. Iive been studying Ed Friedlands book and also Ed fuqua and Jay hungerford. Was wondering do you think its a good idea to have a really solid foundation in Blues changes,2,5,1,rhythym changes before moving on to learning the basic standards these books mention to learn?Or do I just go ahead and start learning some basic standards as well?

All of those things are within the standards anyway. The best approach is to start using those standards to identify those elements. Start with, say, Autumn Leaves, and you'll see just the first 8 bars gives you a 2 5 1 in Major, and a 2 5 1 in Minor (and the 4 most commonly used chord types - maj7, min7, dominant 7, and m7b5). Standards are rich with material to learn from. Dig in!

 

[Deleted member 165050]

For walking bass, especially improvising or jamming, you need to know scales and arpeggios like the back of your hand. All good knowledge.

 

[Jazzkuma]

I would say yes, its important to have a solid foundation in blues, rhythm changes and 251's. But at the same time, 99% of the tunes/standards you will find have these elements in them already.

So you could basically learn all of those 3 things while learning one tune too. You just gotta understand where those things are in that tune and why they are there and their function in that particular place.

If you check out Autumn Leaves you will notices there are 2-5's everywhere. You could practice just the A section and you have a nice 2-5 exercise already while also learning Autumn Leaves.

 

[BluesWalker]

For walking bass, especially improvising or jamming, you need to know scales and arpeggios like the back of your hand. All good knowledge.

I second that notion. That is a problem with trying to learn on-line or by yourself. It is easy to play a chord triad say 5 times, say you got it and move on. You need to spend a lot more time on them that so it becomes second nature. It is too easy to short-cut learning this stuff when you are teaching yourself.

 

[Snarf]

You learn pop songs by learning the bass lines and playing to the recording.

You learn RnB songs by learning the bass lines and playing to the recording.

You learn classic rock songs by learning the bass lines and playing to the recording.

You learn prog tech metalcore fusion emocore thrash songs by learning the bass lines and playing to the recording.

You learn jazz songs by . . . . reading walls of text on an internet forum?


I get that jazz has different rules, styles within the genre, and is more harmonically complicated than other pop music. I went to a yazz school, studied for four years with some greats. What almost always gets left out of the conversation is the most important thing: Learning some of the bass lines played by the greats. That will tell you more than any book, scale, arpeggio, or intarwebz forum will.

 

[JBarz]

You learn jazz songs by . . . . reading walls of text on an internet forum?

+1 and an amen to this guy. I've been tb'n a little too much as of late, admittedly... It's amazing the lengths we'll go to justify our screen addictions... Best thing we can all do is put down our phones and computers and put on our Oscar Peterson records --- time to get to work.

 

[Hasty]

Best thing we can all do is put down our phones and computers and put on our Oscar Peterson records --- time to get to work.

This times 100,000,000!

That’s pretty much how I’ve done it.
In no particular order I do transcriptions from the following:

Ray Brown
Oscar Pettiford
Paul Chambers
Ron Carter

Thats probably the best place to start. And don’t just transcribe one chorus, do as many as you can. They seldom repeated the same idea twice in a song. You really notice the difference when you start comparing one chorus to the next. Especially Ray Brown and Paul Chambers.

 

[MrLenny1]

I saw Ray Brown live once. He knocked me out
with his playing.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

Yeah listen to the greats, usually guys on upright.

Just a friendly warning though, the walking bass on electric, if overdone or done badly, can really pi** off the other jazz guys in a good band. You have to do it right, without a monotone walk of boredom. So you have to be really good & musical or they will complain it should be upright.

Horn players can be a very opinionated lot, some of them are so good they have earned that right.

Speaking of Ray Brown, the man himself told me to learn the melodies of tunes, and learn to play ‘em in different keys. And ‘don’t worry about your gear worry about your playing’. Yes sir.

@Ed Fuqua does check in here if you have questions for him.

 

[bassdog]

This guy does some nice walking here. Lots to learn from this short performance.

 

[FenderPHead68]

All great advice!thanks for all the awesome insights..

 

[CaseyVancouver]

This guy does some nice walking here. Lots to learn from this short performance.

Sorry bassdog, as much as Edu Hurtado has a pleasant sound, this is not what you want to do for jazz, blues or swing! Don’t be offended, this is just my opinion.

Actually one trumpet player who I used to car pool to gigs with told me in confidence how much he hated swing electric bass just like what Edu is doing. He got graphic and excited how much he hated this kind of polite playing. He was also Michael Buble’s trumpet man here in Vancouver before Buble took off to the big time. Yeah he is a big, loud and a brash trumpet man. But he knows jazz, and he is correct.

Here is pdbass with an example of how to swing on electric bass, and not get you kicked out of a real jazz group. I suggest you also throw in some shuffle feel, but not enough to hurt the swing, like spice to a stew, and some melodic notes from the melody. You want to REALLY lock in with the drummer.

And listen like crazy, play off what the other guys are doing. Communicate musically, back and forth. Do not be boring.

@pdbass also is on TalkBass. Maybe he would like to comment

 

[bassdog]

Sorry bassdog, as much as Edu Hurtado has a pleasant sound, this is not what you want to do for jazz, blues or swing! Don’t be offended, this is just my opinion.

Ok but tell that to George Catlett. I haven't analyzed it closely but this sounds pretty close to his original famous recording. I still suggest there is plenty to learn from this for someone wanting to learn about walking lines. Nice note choices, feel, movement between chords, and tone. Your posted "Jazz Lesson 19" is good stuff. Bob

 

[Hasty]

Ok but tell that to George Catlett. I haven't analyzed it closely but this sounds pretty close to his original famous recording. I still suggest there is plenty to learn from this for someone wanting to learn about walking lines. Nice note choices, feel, movement between chords, and tone. Your posted "Jazz Lesson 19" is good stuff. Bob

I don’t disagree and I’ve played this tune many times with charts that have pretty much this same line. This is one of those times where it is what it is and it works in that context.

The issue, not even an issue really, is that this is vocal and it’s Sinatra. Which has a different feel because you’re supporting a vocalist and that vocalist is Sinatra. Your time to shine comes later. It’s a good example of supporting a great vocalist. Sinatra tunes are also a fantastic way to learn a good two-feel.

If I was going to work up some hot basslines for vocal jazz from that era I’d probably hit up the Sounds of 66 album with Buddy Rich and Sammy Davis Jr. But… there’s always a but… if learning walking lines I wouldn’t even start with vocals. I would stick to transcribing just about every bassline on every Oscar Peterson album I could get my hands on.

It seems like it’s easier to adapt that Be Bop, Hard Bop mentality to vocal/lounge type stuff than it is to go the other way around. However, glean technique and information where you can. Once you get comfortable with it you’ll learn how to apply different styles to different context.

Im still learning and always will be learning. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. I just adapt as best I can.