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Walter Woods Amps History and Development
- Thread starter Uncletoad
- Start date
So...
You bought it used with problems, and wanted WW to fix it. Reading between the lines, I'd say there was some bad blood between WW and the previous owner and that amp is the focus of it.
Seems to me you should be mad at the guy who sold it to you. Were you aware that the amp had problems?
Reading between the lines I guess you could insert anything you wanted to.
I'm not mad, but apparently a few WW fans are? I guess it's not acceptable to note that WW doesn't always take care of his CS concerns?
Anyone of the fan base want a WWU for $500?
- May 6, 2003
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- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
Having spoken to Walter quite a bit and having had him repair things for me I can see where at some point he would blow a gasket. He's not one just to put an amp in the trash, take it on the chin and send out a new one where probably in this case with the original owner maybe he should have. I don't know the circumstances. None of us do, that was between Walter and the first owner.
Perhaps somebody else had their soldering iron in there. That really pisses Walter off, and I can see him loosing patience with that in a hurry. I could also see him voiding any free repair on his part if that were the case. I think he's within his right to do so.
He has no obligation in my mind to deal with that after the amp has left the original purchaser. Very few things have lifetime transferable warranty. He repairs his stuff for people but at least in my case charged me both times, feeling that the failures weren't warranty issues. Depending on how you look at it in those cases maybe he's right, maybe he's not. I was a little miffed myself by the circumstances but I can see both sides of the argument.
That's the problem dealing with one guy who holds his cards close to protect his proprietary stuff, and a fellow that won't let anybody else build or repair his designs. You're always gonna have something quirky in the mix.
Perhaps somebody else had their soldering iron in there. That really pisses Walter off, and I can see him loosing patience with that in a hurry. I could also see him voiding any free repair on his part if that were the case. I think he's within his right to do so.
He has no obligation in my mind to deal with that after the amp has left the original purchaser. Very few things have lifetime transferable warranty. He repairs his stuff for people but at least in my case charged me both times, feeling that the failures weren't warranty issues. Depending on how you look at it in those cases maybe he's right, maybe he's not. I was a little miffed myself by the circumstances but I can see both sides of the argument.
That's the problem dealing with one guy who holds his cards close to protect his proprietary stuff, and a fellow that won't let anybody else build or repair his designs. You're always gonna have something quirky in the mix.
Well, some of those mid era 100 watt models really sound bigger than the specs, in my limited experience. Very warm sound and quick transient response, punchy as all get out. Tubey. A small Tsunami in a red box.
I had the first edition of the Acoustic Image Coda, I thought it was the bees knees, then I plugged into the WW 100watt. No contest. The AI was cold, underpowered, and flat in comparison to Walters amp, IMHO. No contest!
I'd like to chime in as a Non-WW owner. I have played a number of different amps that some of the local guys here play and for the most part they seem like great amps and something I would like to own. I've considered it many times but I'll tell you why I never pulled the trigger.
What turns me off is this super secret thing he's got going on. You have to ask around to get the secret phone number, there is no place to get a real data sheet to refer to, forget about a website. He scratches any indication of what he's using off. It can not be serviced locally. And on top of this, this is not the first time I've heard of a conversation where Walter seemed to have woken up on the wrong side of the bed. Regardless of how great these amps may be I see this as a very poorly run business and a guy who may disappear, get sick, take a long time for turn around or maybe you have a great experience. I don't like surpises.
In either case I get paid to play on a fairly regular basis, if my equipment fails me I want to know I can get it fixed quick and be on my way.
I know he was state of the art ten or more years ago, my Rufus Reid book has to be 20 years old with Walter's ad on the back. Are they really that great when compared to the new stuff out there for all the hastle.
Any contingency plans on his part? What happens when he's no longer around and your amp needs work?
What turns me off is this super secret thing he's got going on. You have to ask around to get the secret phone number, there is no place to get a real data sheet to refer to, forget about a website. He scratches any indication of what he's using off. It can not be serviced locally. And on top of this, this is not the first time I've heard of a conversation where Walter seemed to have woken up on the wrong side of the bed. Regardless of how great these amps may be I see this as a very poorly run business and a guy who may disappear, get sick, take a long time for turn around or maybe you have a great experience. I don't like surpises.
In either case I get paid to play on a fairly regular basis, if my equipment fails me I want to know I can get it fixed quick and be on my way.
I know he was state of the art ten or more years ago, my Rufus Reid book has to be 20 years old with Walter's ad on the back. Are they really that great when compared to the new stuff out there for all the hastle.
Any contingency plans on his part? What happens when he's no longer around and your amp needs work?
- May 6, 2003
- 5,272
- 160
- 64
- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
That is one of the reasons my regular bread and butter gig amp is an AI Focus. I like the Walter Tone a little better but I can't put up with that stuff either.
Hello guys this is my first post here.
I'm looking to contact Walter Woods so I can get a 2 Channel MI-100-8
repaired.
I've read the entire thread and found a phone number. but I was told that I had the wrong number when I called.
Does anyone have a current phone number or email address?
I would love to get this amp repaired
Thanks guys
Bassneck
I'm looking to contact Walter Woods so I can get a 2 Channel MI-100-8
repaired.
I've read the entire thread and found a phone number. but I was told that I had the wrong number when I called.
Does anyone have a current phone number or email address?
I would love to get this amp repaired
Thanks guys
Bassneck
I'm sure the amps are great but why go through this when you have such magnificent amps as the LMII and Shuttle? Call me a hater if you want but I couldn't imagine having an amp and having to go to a bass forum to try and get customer service contact info.
Of course I'd be more likely to show up here if I had a problem with a GB amp as they seem to be ninja-esque with their customer service on this board
Dan
Of course I'd be more likely to show up here if I had a problem with a GB amp as they seem to be ninja-esque with their customer service on this board
Dan
No comment on the Shuttle, as I haven't seen one much less tried one, but my Woods sounds worlds better to me than any of the Markbass amps I've tried. The impression I got is that the Woods can do what the MB can do, but the MB can't cop the Woods tone.
And as far as service goes, while WW may be one guy with a soldering iron and an answering machine, I have yet to hear about a player calling Markbass and getting to talk to the person who designed and built their amp. The one time I had to call about a WW amp, I left a message and he called back from CA to NY on his dime for almost an hour and answered every question I had.
Bassneck, someone should supply you with Mr. Woods' number shortly (he doesn't do email); in the meantime remove the top panel of your amp and see if there's a schematic printout in there.
And as far as service goes, while WW may be one guy with a soldering iron and an answering machine, I have yet to hear about a player calling Markbass and getting to talk to the person who designed and built their amp. The one time I had to call about a WW amp, I left a message and he called back from CA to NY on his dime for almost an hour and answered every question I had.
Bassneck, someone should supply you with Mr. Woods' number shortly (he doesn't do email); in the meantime remove the top panel of your amp and see if there's a schematic printout in there.
I think the MB folks hang around here, and know the GB guys pop into threads with ninja like speed. I'm not trying tot ake anything away from his amps, I'm sure they are fantastic but to have to find someone who knows someone who knows the guys number is a lot more difficult than going to the MB or GB website and clicking the "contact us" link. That was all I was saying. If he's an amp manufacturer, why doesn't he make his numbers known..I don't get the hermit-like WW experience.
. I'm not trying tot ake anything away from his amps, I'm sure they are fantastic but to have to find someone who knows someone who knows the guys number is a lot more difficult than going to the MB or GB website and clicking the "contact us" link. That was all I was saying. If he's an amp manufacturer, why doesn't he make his numbers known..I don't get the hermit-like WW experience.
That's just how he chooses to run his business, and it seems to be working for him, hence his reputation and constant backlogs. Diff. strokes for diff. folks and all that. Have I mentioned that the amps are fantastic?
- May 6, 2003
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- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
Walter Woods is a one man operation from construction to repair. Noone else is in the loop there. MarkBass, GB etc have many hands in the pie and they are all replaceable to some extent. Their company and product could continue without regard to the people who currently produce it. When Walter is dead or done working that's the end of it. Good or bad.
Walter is a unique individual with a niche product. It doesn't make sense or have value to some people. Others find his work irreplaceable and they are willing to put up with just about anything to use his work. There is strong loyalty in this small boutique amp thing and often passionate feelings in both positive and negative directions.
Walter's amps have always had a great sound. Until recently for Double Bass there was really no other competition.
I don't think it's comparable to the Mark Bass unit. Construction and components of the Woods amp is impeccable and of the highest level. So are his prices. The Markbass is an excellent bang for the buck amp. They make concessions for construction ease, price point, and other factors that are not even considered in the Walter Woods amp.
They are not in the same league.
From a practical standpoint if the Markbass amp works for you it should make more sense to own it. It's a whole lot cheaper and a whole lot easier than a Woods.
If you dig the tone of the Woods and "get" what he's trying to do there is no substitute and you tolerate the price, the wierdness of reaching him and all the rest.
You don't have to "get" it but you really can't dismiss it just because you don't. It has a place in the marketplace nobody else can touch. He's been in the biz for decades, is constantly backordered, makes a ton of gear each year for one guy, and commands the highest prices. That can't exist that long to that extent if there wasn't something to it.
Walter is a unique individual with a niche product. It doesn't make sense or have value to some people. Others find his work irreplaceable and they are willing to put up with just about anything to use his work. There is strong loyalty in this small boutique amp thing and often passionate feelings in both positive and negative directions.
Walter's amps have always had a great sound. Until recently for Double Bass there was really no other competition.
I don't think it's comparable to the Mark Bass unit. Construction and components of the Woods amp is impeccable and of the highest level. So are his prices. The Markbass is an excellent bang for the buck amp. They make concessions for construction ease, price point, and other factors that are not even considered in the Walter Woods amp.
They are not in the same league.
From a practical standpoint if the Markbass amp works for you it should make more sense to own it. It's a whole lot cheaper and a whole lot easier than a Woods.
If you dig the tone of the Woods and "get" what he's trying to do there is no substitute and you tolerate the price, the wierdness of reaching him and all the rest.
You don't have to "get" it but you really can't dismiss it just because you don't. It has a place in the marketplace nobody else can touch. He's been in the biz for decades, is constantly backordered, makes a ton of gear each year for one guy, and commands the highest prices. That can't exist that long to that extent if there wasn't something to it.
He doesn't make a niche product anymore, he makes amplifiers. Niche went out the window with the introduction of the new lightweight amps.
I've read lots of replies about non-standard parts he uses, different layouts, different everything.... and no one but him can repair the amps because he's so secretive about all of it. What happens when he's gone? These 3K heads are now paperweights IMO.
Like I said, I'm sure his heads are great and I'm not trying to knock anyone for owning one, if that's what you want, then by all means get one. What I am saying is that it isn't a unique product anymore...it's just another amplifier, albeit a well made one. I also think that it's weird that some businesses succeed despite themselves.
Dan
I've read lots of replies about non-standard parts he uses, different layouts, different everything.... and no one but him can repair the amps because he's so secretive about all of it. What happens when he's gone? These 3K heads are now paperweights IMO.
Like I said, I'm sure his heads are great and I'm not trying to knock anyone for owning one, if that's what you want, then by all means get one. What I am saying is that it isn't a unique product anymore...it's just another amplifier, albeit a well made one. I also think that it's weird that some businesses succeed despite themselves.
Dan
- May 6, 2003
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- Disclosures
- Proprietor Fifth Avenue Fret Shop. Technical Editor Bass Gear Magazine
I think there's a certain romance and a connection with tradition that Walter has by not having three emails, a fax, a cell, a website, a myspace, a facebook and a twitter account. He's old skool! In this world of convenience and consumerism, he's a breath of fresh air. I like how he's kept his business model pretty much the same after all these years. Back when he started, having an answering machine was a big deal, let alone a phone.
I think he still is making a niche product despite the introduction of similar products on the market. His amp designs and execution and his business model separate him from all the other production line manufacturers. It's interesting to note how many new guitar amplifier makers there are and how everyone's focus seems to be back on the hand-wired tube amp. Meanwhile, bass amplifiers are on their own path. Sure, there are people making hand-wired bass amps but only a handful. The bass market is now flooded with products that sacrifice high individual component costs for lower sale price and as the prices lower, competition becomes greater which drives costs down even further. While other manufacturers have no choice but to play the price wars, Walter's MO is still all about putting out the best possible product with the best possible components. He's offering a price-is-no-object amplifier, something that is nearly extinct in the bass world, especially in the popular lightweight solid-state amp category.
I think he still is making a niche product despite the introduction of similar products on the market. His amp designs and execution and his business model separate him from all the other production line manufacturers. It's interesting to note how many new guitar amplifier makers there are and how everyone's focus seems to be back on the hand-wired tube amp. Meanwhile, bass amplifiers are on their own path. Sure, there are people making hand-wired bass amps but only a handful. The bass market is now flooded with products that sacrifice high individual component costs for lower sale price and as the prices lower, competition becomes greater which drives costs down even further. While other manufacturers have no choice but to play the price wars, Walter's MO is still all about putting out the best possible product with the best possible components. He's offering a price-is-no-object amplifier, something that is nearly extinct in the bass world, especially in the popular lightweight solid-state amp category.
What's his niche? Making a good amplifier? Plenty of companies do that. Definition of niche as it applies to this is "A special area of demand for a product or service". What's special about his product anymore? It's a well made, lightweight amplifier. He isn't cornering the market on anything anymore.
Once again I'm not saying he makes a bad product, he has to be making a good product to be in business still.
And no I haven't tried one, and I honestly don't see my views being shaken by an audition of one. It's just another amplifier when it all comes down to it.
Of course everyone is entitled to think otherwise, I'm not trying to convince anyone otherwise.
Dan
Why don't you go find a Woods amp to try and get back to us with your reaction, rather than knocking a product you have no grasp of in a thread intended to educate?
I have to come to Dan's defense here. I have been using WW amps since the early '80s, so I do know a thing or two about them, plus have had many pleasant and interesting discussions with Walter over the years. Until the recent trend toward compact, lightweight, powerful (and some not-so-powerful) amps Walter did have a niche, as no one else was making anything like a WW amp; it is only now that we can truly say his niche has been filled with some excellent amps. Yes, most of them most likely do not have the top-notch components and overall quality of a WW amp but those amps should not be dismissed because of that. Currently, I have a WW Super amp and a Markbass LM II. 99% of the time these days I take the LM II to gigs as it has features that are quite useful in this modern age, like the high quality pre/post-able XLR DI and Speakon output connector, for two example. I love the tone of my Super but I also love the tone of my LM II; in all honesty, I find it easier and quicker to get a great tone with the LM II than the Super. Walter was there first and will always live on in amplification history as the first to do the super compact, high quality amp concept, but I think it is a fitting tribute to him that, finally, other manufacturers have joined him in making our lives easier.
This past June I had the chance to spend a couple hours at WW's shop and will never forget the experience. I had an issue with a bridging cable built for me for my stereo WW by someone else. I happened to be in Palm Desert and just took the amp and the cable over to Walter's house (after calling him first, of course).
He was a warm and engaging host. He couldn't help me with the cable, but he insisted on giving the stereo WW a checkup. In the course of him tinkering with the amp we chatted about all sorts of things, one of which was his business philosophy and the story of how he got started designing and building his amps. (And yes, he really did play in the military band at JFK's funeral; he showed me a photo of it himself).
He insisted on replacing a couple of minor components that he thought "might possibly" fail sometime, although they were in fine condition in my 2000 model. On top of this he insisted on giving me a couple of spare components for my son's identical stereo WW and showed me how to solder them in. He allowed me to take a photo of him pointing to the spot on the board where they go. (I therefore claim to have sole ownership of perhaps the only photo ever taken of WW, albeit only his index finger and part of a hand. That photo will never, ever leave the hard drive of my computer.)
He refused to accept payment for any of the work he did or parts he gave me. I did buy a bridging cable from him, though.
His position in the market can ONLY be described as a niche. Why? Very simple. Nobody, I mean NOBODY, makes a bass amplifier head that is even near being in the same league as the WW in terms of build quality, engineering brilliance, reliability and incredible sound. Or price, as far as I know. Granted, it may not be for everyone, and that's fine. But there is no comparable product made with this level of quality and attention to detail. The only thing that makes this possible if for him is to do everything himself.
I personally am convinced, especially after meeting the man, that Walter has made provisions for his amps to be able to be serviced after he is gone. Don't ask me what provisions, I don't know, but the man is simply made out of different stuff than 99.9999% of the rest of us. And he really cares about his legacy and making certain that his amps remain in service.
It's certainly understandable for people to be uncomfortable about the inconvenience and uncertainty of getting his amps serviced. If you feel that way you probably shouldn't own one. But with all due respect to all TB's who've commented on this, anyone who has never seen or played one has no business comparing it with anything else.
My two cents...
He was a warm and engaging host. He couldn't help me with the cable, but he insisted on giving the stereo WW a checkup. In the course of him tinkering with the amp we chatted about all sorts of things, one of which was his business philosophy and the story of how he got started designing and building his amps. (And yes, he really did play in the military band at JFK's funeral; he showed me a photo of it himself).
He insisted on replacing a couple of minor components that he thought "might possibly" fail sometime, although they were in fine condition in my 2000 model. On top of this he insisted on giving me a couple of spare components for my son's identical stereo WW and showed me how to solder them in. He allowed me to take a photo of him pointing to the spot on the board where they go. (I therefore claim to have sole ownership of perhaps the only photo ever taken of WW, albeit only his index finger and part of a hand
. That photo will never, ever leave the hard drive of my computer.) He refused to accept payment for any of the work he did or parts he gave me. I did buy a bridging cable from him, though.
His position in the market can ONLY be described as a niche. Why? Very simple. Nobody, I mean NOBODY, makes a bass amplifier head that is even near being in the same league as the WW in terms of build quality, engineering brilliance, reliability and incredible sound. Or price, as far as I know. Granted, it may not be for everyone, and that's fine. But there is no comparable product made with this level of quality and attention to detail. The only thing that makes this possible if for him is to do everything himself.
I personally am convinced, especially after meeting the man, that Walter has made provisions for his amps to be able to be serviced after he is gone. Don't ask me what provisions, I don't know, but the man is simply made out of different stuff than 99.9999% of the rest of us. And he really cares about his legacy and making certain that his amps remain in service.
It's certainly understandable for people to be uncomfortable about the inconvenience and uncertainty of getting his amps serviced. If you feel that way you probably shouldn't own one. But with all due respect to all TB's who've commented on this, anyone who has never seen or played one has no business comparing it with anything else.
My two cents...
