Double Bass Walter Woods? Or not...

[Ric Vice]

An interesting point with both WW and AI is that unlike all the micro heads out there today, these have no fans. My AI combos don't even have any vents!

Does anyone know if AI uses standard class D power modules? As far as I know, they started selling amps before those were available.

I suspect that's because they were both very well designed. Since you own a Walter Woods you know that the preamp section of the Woods is mounted vertically behind the pots and jacks. Inside the SMPS power and power
amp took up all the interior space inside the amp. Walter put vent slots in the top of the amplifier and a massive heat sink in back to wick off the heat. By, the time AI started building heads IcE Power modules were much cooler than the previous SS amplifiers.
I believe Rick Jones told me that they always used IcePower modules.

 

[Thooom]

I'm definitely in the minority here, but my experience with the Woods I bought in the 90s was disappointing. I bought the basic 100W model (can't remember but I think it was 2-channel) for I think about $1000. For my upright, it had a beautiful tone on sustained notes, BUT with my Fishman BP-100 pickup and several different speaker cabinets, the Woods would "shake" the speaker cones in my cabinets and the resulting sound would "wobble" when I really pulled the strings. It was like the Woods was so sensitive that it detected the pulling of the string as a super-low frequency (yes, super-low: only one cycle!) and transmitted that to the cabinet. Playing jazz uptempo at high volume produced a semi-distorted mess of a sound because the pulling of the strings was generating a signal to the speakers (that you don't want amplified) in addition to the actual usable vibrations of the strings (which you do want amplified).

It sounded awesome when I played electric; no issues.

Sorry if this sounds stupid, but I could not get the Woods to produce a smooth, usable sound from my upright. I'm sure I was doing something wrong (maybe needed a preamp?), but I ended up selling it to another bassist and started using an SWR head which sounded gorgeous. And the SWR (and every other amp I've ever used since the Woods) amplified the true string vibration tone; not my singular cycle produced by pulling the string.

 

[Ric Vice]

Hard to say what was causing that to happen. Walter did have individual amps that had to be sent back due to faulty components.
I know this because I experience it. The SMPS on original MI-100-8 failed due to a failed part, two days after I got it and had to be
to Walter to fix it. At the time Walter said he had several units that had to be serviced and they were all over the map.

 

[Jefenator]

"This amp sounds better than any other amp I've tried." I feel the same way.
My wife has a Gallen Kruger 150(?).
We couldn't find anyone locally (SF bay area) who could do simple repairs on it.

That reminds me - my handy old MB150 combo did eventually brick on me.
Would I trade an extra pound of weight and a few more bucks to have my tech be able to dive in & easily swap out the part that dried up? I reckon I would.
No regrets, though - I bought that combo used for $250 & enjoyed it for 24 years.

 

[Ric Vice]

That reminds me - my handy old MB150 combo did eventually brick on me.
Would I trade an extra pound of weight and a few more bucks to have my tech be able to dive in & easily swap out the part that dried up? I reckon I would.
No regrets, though - I bought that combo used for $250 & enjoyed it for 24 years.

I had two different Gallien Krueger 200MB combos and loved that EQ voicing for Double Bass and my passive Fender Precision’s. I bought both of them new
from Washington Music. I traded the second one for a new GK MBE 150, but they changed the EQ voicing on that amp, so I went back to my trusty Walter Woods
MI-100-8 and eventually purchased a Woods MI-400-8 which was incredible. The GK 200MB’s were @ $500.00 new with the Chuck Levin discount. GK switched the power section between the 200MB’s and the MB150’s. The 200MB’s had a small transformer mounted in the bottom of the speaker enclosure. The MB150’s had a rail switching Class H power supply.

 

[Thooom]

Hard to say what was causing that to happen. Walter did have individual amps that had to be sent back due to faulty components.
I know this because I experience it. The SMPS on original MI-100-8 failed due to a failed part, two days after I got it and had to be
to Walter to fix it. At the time Walter said he had several units that had to be serviced and they were all over the map.

Well dang, it never occurred to me the amp itself could have been defective. Like I said, it sounded so good with the bass guitar, and the long, sustained DB notes sounded warm and fat. I now remember that amp had some scratchiness with a couple of the pots that I never had repaired, so maybe the whole unit was a lemon?

 

[brianrost]

Was just in touch with Fuchs Audio to confirm they repair WW amps (it's not mentioned on their site) and not only did they confirm it, they sent me a picture of their WW "clone" preamp plus ICE power amp 350 watter. They've been giving these to clients as loaners while working on their WW. If only it was two channels

 

[Ric Vice]

Was just in touch with Fuchs Audio to confirm they repair WW amps (it's not mentioned on their site) and not only did they confirm it, they sent me a picture of their WW "clone" preamp plus ICE power amp 350 watter. They've been giving these to clients as loaners while working on their WW. If only it was two channels

View attachment 5095499

I like purple. It's not a pretty as a Walter Woods, but the power section can be easily repaired. I talked with them and will send my Woods Electroacoustic Ultra to them for a "checkup". Two channels would be better for sure, more complicated to build
and definitely more expensive to buy. I had all but given up on having my beloved Ultra ever serviced again as it cost a pretty penny the last time I sent mine out to Walter and at that point I decided to buy a Grace Felix and MAS powered cabinet rather
than ever having my Ultra serviced again, until this came along.

 

[CryingBass]

I like purple. It's not a pretty as a Walter Woods, but the power section can be easily repaired. I talked with them and will send my Woods Electroacoustic Ultra to them for a "checkup". Two channels would be better for sure, more complicated to build
and definitely more expensive to buy. I had all but given up on having my beloved Ultra ever serviced again as it cost a pretty penny the last time I sent mine out to Walter and at that point I decided to buy a Grace Felix and MAS powered cabinet rather
than ever having my Ultra serviced again, until this came along.

Let us know how it goes Ric.

 

[brianrost]

The #1 reason I bought my first WW was simply that it had two channels. I was tired of using an A/B box and compromised EQ on doubling gigs. Ironically, if the Grace Felix or AI Focus sIII had been around back then that would have solved my problem! The size and weight of the WW, not to mention the sound, was just icing on the cake.

 

[JBarz]

Two channels would be better for sure, more complicated to build
and definitely more expensive to buy.

Yeah, but I imagine if you need two channels, they obviously don’t give two Fuchs.

(Sorry, I couldn’t resist)
The 9 o’clock show is totally different from the 7 o’clock. Tip your waitress.

 

[Ric Vice]

Walter has been building amplifiers since the mid 70’s. That has created a rather large backlog of different model amplifiers that have had lasted many years. If he only built say 30 amplifiers each year that would put @ 600 amplifiers our there that will potentially need some kind of service. With only one person building and servicing them there aren’t enough hours in a day to fill all the service requests from customers and build new amps. Since Walter protected his designs by removing parts no’s from critical components and never offered any full schematics repairs ( U.S. patents are virtually useless unless you have the considerable funds to sue infringement cases) require a very talented engineer repair technician. A couple of audio shops have decided to repair Walters amps. I’m glad to have someone who can repair the Woods amps provided they can obtain the parts to do so.

 

[JBarz]

I agree! Pardon my earlier post, I’m a father of 4 and can’t resist a solid pun - it’s a curse.

 

[Ric Vice]

Yeah, but I imagine if you need two channels, they obviously don’t give two Fuchs.

(Sorry, I couldn’t resist)
The 9 o’clock show is totally different from the 7 o’clock. Tip your waitress.

I agree! Pardon my earlier post, I’m a father of 4 and can’t resist a solid pun - it’s a curse.

As time continues to change amplifier design, I've come to a simple conclusion. The original Ampeg B-15N's had two channel preamps so another instrument or microphone could be plugged into the amp. It was fairly common to be singing through your own amp in times gone past. FOH systems and monitors have eliminated the need for a second channel on a new amplifier for vocal support or your bandmates harmonica ( I love harmonica by the way). Two channel amplifiers are now used mostly by doublers playing shows or stage acts, but for the most part many of us only use Channel 1 if we have a Channel 2 available. Thus at present only a handful of bass amp builders even still build and that number is getting smaller. My take is that there won’t be but a few left as time goes on.

 

[FUCHSAUDIO]

Walter has been building amplifiers since the mid 70’s. That has created a rather large backlog of different model amplifiers that have had lasted many years. If he only built say 30 amplifiers each year that would put @ 600 amplifiers our there that will potentially need some kind of service. With only one person building and servicing them there aren’t enough hours in a day to fill all the service requests from customers and build new amps. Since Walter protected his designs by removing parts no’s from critical components and never offered any full schematics repairs ( U.S. patents are virtually useless unless you have the considerable funds to sue infringement cases) require a very talented engineer repair technician. A couple of audio shops have decided to repair Walters amps. I’m glad to have someone who can repair the Woods amps provided they can obtain the parts to do so.

I tried to reach out to Walter a few times. People gave me his phone and address, to no avail. He is rumored to have died in the last year or two. I wanted to carry on his legacy and FWIW, he wasn't interested. Our shop has had pretty good success with the Woods amps. We actually have even taken working amps and removed critical parts (with the numbers removed from them), measured them, and have progressively unwrapped the layers of the Woods onion, if you will. We have a couple of gifted engineer friends who've assisted. We also reverse-engineered the preamps, and now make a couple of bass amps that use the Woods based preamp with a few of our own innovations, in 350-W and 700-W versions that are equally small and powerful to the Woods. I'm proud to say that I loaned one to a customer while his Woods was in our shop, and he said "it's better than my Woods", and he's on our first-run build list. So yes, we can service Walter Woods amps.

 

[FUCHSAUDIO]

It was only a matter of time before someone did this and it's finally happened. Frankly, I doubt that the Fuchs clone will actually sell that many units, but I'd like to be proven wrong.
Walter could have added a Pascal, IcE, or Hypex to his amps years ago, if he had chosen to, saved himself a lot of build time and made the amps more affordable. For what ever reason,
he chose not to do that. Who knows why. It's kind of a mote point now anyway. Acoustic Image has great customer service and established a solid customer bass with lots of players.
Personally, I prefer the sound of my Woods, but I got it used at a reasonable price from someone I trusted. Walter absolutely has the right to withhold his schematics and part no's
because those designs are his intellectual He always got back to me and repaired my Electroacoustic. At this point , I would never entertain the thought of buying a Woods even
if I could get my hands on a new one. It's just easier to use something that can easily be serviced and repaired. Just my take however

I'm optimistic our new bass amps (4-models) will do okay. I've lent some samples out to some well-respected professionals as well as local customers who's Woods amps were in my shop, and the feedback has been very positive. They are 5 and 6 lbs respectively, Wood's size case, Walter's preamp with my own enhancements and ICE powered. The tube versions will be SVT inspired designs with a switch mode supply, so the tubes run on 300 volts, but also with some refinements like DC tube filaments, subsonic filtering, and a few things I can't share right now.

BTW: It's official Acoustic Image is out of business. The owner passed-away and his family is simply closing the doors. I asked about supporting their products and buying the brand etc, and they appear to have no interest.

 

[Ric Vice]

I have no first hand information about why Rick Jones’s family decided to close the company, but my guess is that
(which is very sad by the way), this years ISB Convention was sorely missing Rick’s wonderful voice and support,
Acoustic Image was Rick’s lifetime project and once his time was done his bequest may have been that the company close it’s doors
I know Rick’s son is a gifted electrical engineer, but running a company may be something he wasn’t interested in doing. Just my take

 

[jazzwalk]

I tried to reach out to Walter a few times. People gave me his phone and address, to no avail. He is rumored to have died in the last year or two. I wanted to carry on his legacy and FWIW, he wasn't interested. Our shop has had pretty good success with the Woods amps. We actually have even taken working amps and removed critical parts (with the numbers removed from them), measured them, and have progressively unwrapped the layers of the Woods onion, if you will. We have a couple of gifted engineer friends who've assisted. We also reverse-engineered the preamps, and now make a couple of bass amps that use the Woods based preamp with a few of our own innovations, in 350-W and 700-W versions that are equally small and powerful to the Woods. I'm proud to say that I loaned one to a customer while his Woods was in our shop, and he said "it's better than my Woods", and he's on our first-run build list. So yes, we can service Walter Woods amps.

Seriously, has Walter W indeed passed...:-? Anyone know for certain? Also, hello Fuchs Audio...do you have a web presence?

 

[Don Kasper]

Fuchs, YEAH! This is great news for us WW Amp owners!
Thanks, TB Hive, for letting the world know.
Srsly.
Thanks!

 

[Don Kasper]

Fuchs Audio...do you have a web presence?

Yes, they do:
Hand Crafted Guitar Amps, Cabinets and Pedals-Fuchs Audio