Was my teacher a fraud, Part 2 (a different teacher).

[basscase666]

So a few weeks ago I posted about a teacher who, although he was a good bass player, said he graduated from Berklee, yet couldn't read treble clef. This thread is about a different problem: a teacher who didn't seem to be a bass player. Read on:

So there was a sheet music store in my area that had an ad on its bulletin board for bass instruction. I contacted this teacher and set up lessons. (I found out later that the teacher was actually the owner of the sheet music store. Not exactly fraud, but it should have been mentioned up front.)

The first thing that struck me about this teacher is that he did not have a bass in hand when he taught. He simply sat in a chair next to me with a pointer in his hand. There didn't even appear to be a bass in his house (where he held lessons); there were a number of fretted instruments on display in his house, but no sign of a bass or a bass amp.

Over the course of the next three months before I quit, this teacher sometimes talked about his musical and band experiences but never mentioned that he played bass.

His method of teaching was simple: we worked out of a book that showed how to play arpeggios for the 4-string bass guitar (I had a 5 string but that was not an issue), for all the chords for the four basic chord forms. This book had exercises which are the only assignments he gave. For these exercises, you simply arpeggiated the chords on the charts, starting from the root. For example, Dm - G7 - Cmaj would be played d - f - a - c/g - b - d - f/c - e - g - b. He never discussed leading tones or any other method of deviating from this strict arpeggio approach.

So what do you make of this?

 

[FatStringer52]

Sounds like he was laying a foundation. We have absolutely no knowledge of what your playing skills were during this 3 month tenure, nor of the evaluation he assessed of those skills at the time. It would be very difficult for any of us to reach any opinion with such little information. There is always at least two sides to every story!

Let he who cast the first stone . . .

Have you had any good experiences with [bass] teachers that you would like to share?

 

[Malcolm35]

+1 to ^^ He was giving you the basics. IMO, that is step one. I'm sure he will get around to the other stuff when he feels you are ready.

Talk to him about being ready.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

+1 to ^^ He was giving you the basics. IMO, that is step one. I'm sure he will get around to the other stuff when he feels you are ready.

Talk to him about being ready.

Not to burst, but read the original post. This cat already quit...

 

[sean_on_bass]

So a few weeks ago I posted about a teacher who, although he was a good bass player, said he graduated from Berklee, yet couldn't read treble clef. This thread is about a different problem: a teacher who didn't seem to be a bass player. Read on:

So there was a sheet music store in my area that had an ad on its bulletin board for bass instruction. I contacted this teacher and set up lessons. (I found out later that the teacher was actually the owner of the sheet music store. Not exactly fraud, but it should have been mentioned up front.)

The first thing that struck me about this teacher is that he did not have a bass in hand when he taught. He simply sat in a chair next to me with a pointer in his hand. There didn't even appear to be a bass in his house (where he held lessons); there were a number of fretted instruments on display in his house, but no sign of a bass or a bass amp.

Over the course of the next three months before I quit, this teacher sometimes talked about his musical and band experiences but never mentioned that he played bass.

His method of teaching was simple: we worked out of a book that showed how to play arpeggios for the 4-string bass guitar (I had a 5 string but that was not an issue), for all the chords for the four basic chord forms. This book had exercises which are the only assignments he gave. For these exercises, you simply arpeggiated the chords on the charts, starting from the root. For example, Dm - G7 - Cmaj would be played d - f - a - c/g - b - d - f/c - e - g - b. He never discussed leading tones or any other method of deviating from this strict arpeggio approach.

So what do you make of this?

Sounds like he did teach you some good, relevant information that some bassists skimp on. As to if he is a bass player, who knows. Something to also consider is that it might not matter if he plays bass well, as long as he is a good and knowledgeable musician. I reckon a big part of bass lessons is general music education and not always specific bass techniques.

Did you not ask him if he played bass? Like, people do chat with their teachers right?

 

[lfmn16]

So a few weeks ago I posted about a teacher who, although he was a good bass player, said he graduated from Berklee, yet couldn't read treble clef. This thread is about a different problem: a teacher who didn't seem to be a bass player. Read on:

So there was a sheet music store in my area that had an ad on its bulletin board for bass instruction. I contacted this teacher and set up lessons. (I found out later that the teacher was actually the owner of the sheet music store. Not exactly fraud, but it should have been mentioned up front.)

The first thing that struck me about this teacher is that he did not have a bass in hand when he taught. He simply sat in a chair next to me with a pointer in his hand. There didn't even appear to be a bass in his house (where he held lessons); there were a number of fretted instruments on display in his house, but no sign of a bass or a bass amp.

Over the course of the next three months before I quit, this teacher sometimes talked about his musical and band experiences but never mentioned that he played bass.

His method of teaching was simple: we worked out of a book that showed how to play arpeggios for the 4-string bass guitar (I had a 5 string but that was not an issue), for all the chords for the four basic chord forms. This book had exercises which are the only assignments he gave. For these exercises, you simply arpeggiated the chords on the charts, starting from the root. For example, Dm - G7 - Cmaj would be played d - f - a - c/g - b - d - f/c - e - g - b. He never discussed leading tones or any other method of deviating from this strict arpeggio approach.

So what do you make of this?

If you want to find a good teacher, you should get recommendations. The chance of finding someone really good at random is very small. If you want to learn bass, learn from a teacher that plays bass. You stuck with it for three months and never saw a bass or bass amp??? I don't think I've EVER had even a single lesson on any instrument where the teacher didn't say, "Try this" and play something.

 

[obimark]

So a few weeks ago I posted about a teacher who, although he was a good bass player, said he graduated from Berklee, yet couldn't read treble clef. This thread is about a different problem: a teacher who didn't seem to be a bass player. Read on:

So there was a sheet music store in my area that had an ad on its bulletin board for bass instruction. I contacted this teacher and set up lessons. (I found out later that the teacher was actually the owner of the sheet music store. Not exactly fraud, but it should have been mentioned up front.)

The first thing that struck me about this teacher is that he did not have a bass in hand when he taught. He simply sat in a chair next to me with a pointer in his hand. There didn't even appear to be a bass in his house (where he held lessons); there were a number of fretted instruments on display in his house, but no sign of a bass or a bass amp.

Over the course of the next three months before I quit, this teacher sometimes talked about his musical and band experiences but never mentioned that he played bass.

His method of teaching was simple: we worked out of a book that showed how to play arpeggios for the 4-string bass guitar (I had a 5 string but that was not an issue), for all the chords for the four basic chord forms. This book had exercises which are the only assignments he gave. For these exercises, you simply arpeggiated the chords on the charts, starting from the root. For example, Dm - G7 - Cmaj would be played d - f - a - c/g - b - d - f/c - e - g - b. He never discussed leading tones or any other method of deviating from this strict arpeggio approach.

So what do you make of this?

If all he taught was straight arpeggios he is a waste of time.

 

[mattj1stc]

Musical instruction is an odd thing, especially when dealing with adults. There are a lot of truly bad teachers out there, but there are also cases where there's just not a good fit between the teacher and student. Not sure if this is the case described here. I can see it from both points of view. On the one hand, it's not unreasonable to have a teacher, even someone who is not a dedicated bass player, be able to impart useful musical information to a student by moving through a book that teaches them how to do arpeggios, etc. On the other hand, if you're just going to work through a book, you could do this on your own.

Overall, I find this example interesting. In the past when I've looked for bass teachers, I've mostly found great bass players who really were not able to teach what they did. This is the reverse situation.

 

[JRA]

If all he taught was straight arpeggios he is a waste of time.

you might be right, but you can't be sure without knowing what the OP is capable of (skills assessment), or what the teacher actually had in mind with his 'method'. the only thing we know for sure is that the OP questions the methods/motives of his bass teachers.

 

[Admiral Akbar]

Why don't you ask the guy if he plays bass?

not that it matters — do want to learn how to play music or just bass guitar?

I do agree, it is odd that he advertised bass instruction yet never showed anything particular to bass....

 

[JRA]

So what do you make of this?

i'd like to empathize, but i don't know the context:
- are you a beginner/noob?
- do you want to learn music or would you rather learn licks and tunes?
- are you a 'pro-active' type or do you tend to be more 'passive'?
- do you want to play in a band?

IME: the best teachers facilitate the accomplishment (or the establishment) of your own stated goals.

 

[jchrisk1]

Were these daily, weekly, or monthly lessons? Do you have the arpeggios for those four chord types memorized in every key? Patterns, note names, and note functions?
It's difficult for any of us to know where you are with musical knowledge and playing abilities, therefore, hard for us to know if it was a waste of your time.

 

[Quinn Roberts]

Plot twist; he was really trying to find a bass player for his band.
But in all seriousness, music is music; some of my favorite and most intuitive "bass" lessons have been from a local guitarist.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

So a few weeks ago I posted about a teacher who, although he was a good bass player, said he graduated from Berklee, yet couldn't read treble clef. This thread is about a different problem: a teacher who didn't seem to be a bass player. Read on:

[...]

So what do you make of this?

Not sure if I understand, is the issue that he didn't play bass? Well about 10 years back I decided to learn a new instrument (cello). I decided to do classical grades and found a teacher who was a Royal College of Music graduate and a brilliant violinist, but she had never touched a cello. Bottom line is I went from also having never touched a cello to passing cello grade 5 in under 2 years, because she was a brilliant music teacher. Actual instrument technique we got from online videos. The important thing is the teacher understands music and motivates you, sounds like yours didn't do that.

 

[bass12]

If I want bass lessons I go see a bassist. Not a guitarist who dabbles in bass playing, not a trombonist and not a pianist. It's important to me that a bass teacher have ample experience on the bass in various contexts and be able to "think like a bass player". If I want music lessons independent of bass that's another story - but since it's possible to have both in the same package I'll go with an actual bassist. There are way too many guitarists, for example, who pass themselves off as bass teachers without having much experience on the instrument - and that bothers me. All too often it amounts to charlatanism.

Having said that, neither of my bass teachers at university (both of whom were legitimate bassists) ever played bass during my lessons - only piano - and that was fine because it made sense under the circumstances. My current teacher (specifically for DB) will sometimes play during a lesson and sometimes won't.

 

[PennyroyalWe]

My bass teacher was a guitarist. In lessons he'd play guitar and I'd play bass. I think it was a great way to learn.

 

[azureblue]

sounds to me like you are finding fault in your teachers instead of learning. So what if #1 doesn't read treble clef? I couldn't read bass clef (coming from a reed instrument) when I started my formal music education. But once I had it down, I had to learn how to read and sight transpose Bb and Eb instruments since I was learning to write for horns. Not many bass players can do that or even have the need to. #2 is giving you the basics and you don't need a bass to teach that. The last 4 strings on a guitar will serve that purpose. I learned all my music theory on a piano, because that is how it was taught. Theory is all mind work. Chord shapes scales, on a bass are all simple patterns to memorize and apply. I took some technique from a classical guitar player which really helped my right hand except for the difference of me not using finger nails. I think you want somebody to show you how to play your favorite tunes on a bass. If that's the case, then don't waste time and just learn to do it yourself.

 

[slagheap]

So a few weeks ago I posted about a teacher who, although he was a good bass player, said he graduated from Berklee, yet couldn't read treble clef. This thread is about a different problem: a teacher who didn't seem to be a bass player. Read on:

So there was a sheet music store in my area that had an ad on its bulletin board for bass instruction. I contacted this teacher and set up lessons. (I found out later that the teacher was actually the owner of the sheet music store. Not exactly fraud, but it should have been mentioned up front.)

The first thing that struck me about this teacher is that he did not have a bass in hand when he taught. He simply sat in a chair next to me with a pointer in his hand. There didn't even appear to be a bass in his house (where he held lessons); there were a number of fretted instruments on display in his house, but no sign of a bass or a bass amp.

Over the course of the next three months before I quit, this teacher sometimes talked about his musical and band experiences but never mentioned that he played bass.

His method of teaching was simple: we worked out of a book that showed how to play arpeggios for the 4-string bass guitar (I had a 5 string but that was not an issue), for all the chords for the four basic chord forms. This book had exercises which are the only assignments he gave. For these exercises, you simply arpeggiated the chords on the charts, starting from the root. For example, Dm - G7 - Cmaj would be played d - f - a - c/g - b - d - f/c - e - g - b. He never discussed leading tones or any other method of deviating from this strict arpeggio approach.

So what do you make of this?

if indeed he advertised as a bass teacher, yes, a fraud or a dope. you got cheated.

 

[India_Sierra]

Interesting point - you don't need a bass teacher, you don't need a teacher to teach you how to play bass. It's mechanically a very simple instrument beyond the basic things of setting your strap height right and learning correct left hand position to prevent you injuring yourself.

What you perhaps needed, as most people do, is music tuition, and your teacher doesn't need to be holding a bass for that to happen. The standard of bass instruction is relatively low in general compared to other instruments that I think you'd actually be more likely to learn music well from a piano teacher, a double bass teacher etc. These instruments tend to be taught in a classical, music only fashion. Go to the music store and ask to be put in touch with the best music teacher, not the best bassist.

YMMV, but this is the second thread where you're recounting an unfavourable experience with a teacher here that could have been avoided if you'd simply had an adult conversation with the teacher about the issue at hand. Perhaps in future you could be more open and forthright with your teachers in discussion your expectations and their qualifications
Any teacher worth their salt will happily answer you on this.

 

[Papageno]

So what if #1 doesn't read treble clef? I couldn't read bass clef (coming from a reed instrument) when I started my formal music education. But once I had it down, I had to learn how to read and sight transpose Bb and Eb instruments since I was learning to write for horns.

Admittingly, my remark is pretty much off topic, but knowing to read the bass clef gives you the benefit of reading on-the-fly music music written for Eb instruments, without any transposition efforts: because Eb instruments usually use the treble clef, you only need to pretend it is written in bass clef, while mentally removing 3 sharps (or adding 3 flats) from the key signature... (accidentals may need special care, though, because naturals sign may need to be interpreted as flats, or sharps and natural signs).