Was this an appropriate way to be fired?

[LBS-bass]

In my experiences, a musician gets fired from a band for a handful of reasons.

1. You're not good enough for them, or at least they think you're not. This can apply even if you can play circles around all of them. It's very possible that recording bass on an instrument that you're not comfortable with caused your parts to be played much worse than you hoped or even noticed. Isolating a recorded bass track will absolutely tell the listener the truth about that person's playing. You can't hide slop on an isolated bass track. Sometimes you can't even hide it in the mix.

I'm wondering how much studio experience these guys have. Tend to agree with the "something happened in the studio" line of thought, but I think what might have happened is that they soloed the bass track and heard the sort of stuff that's pretty much always present in a bass track. Pick one of any number of isolated tracks out there and you'll hear stuff you didn't think was there when the track was in the mix; fret noise, clank, finger noise, etc. Experienced engineers know how to mix things in such a way that these things don't stand out, but when you get inexperienced ears listening to soloed tracks, it can spell trouble.

And, adding to that, I'd guess there was maybe more than the usual amount of this going on in the bass tracks because OP was playing an unfamiliar instrument.

In any case, four years is way too long to be working on a project. It was a lousy way of letting the OP go, he should be given a legit reason, but no one likes telling someone they didn't like how they sounded.

 

[Richard Martin]

Here's a modern cover of a classic soul tune; the O'Jays did the original.

That was the O'Jays with a different backup band and Daryl Hall.

 

[Wood and Wire]

Merle Haggard released 11 albums between Sept. 65 and Sept. 69, 1 every 2.8 months.

Johnny Cash released 19 albums between Oct 57 and Jan 68, 1 every 3.3 months.

The Beatles released 13 albums in the UK from Mar 63 to May 70, 1 every 7.2 months

Cream released 4 albums between Dec. 66 and Feb. 69, 1 every 8.6 months.

Black Sabbath released 4 albums between Feb 70 and Sept. 72, 1 every 10.6 months.

Led Zeppelin released 4 albums between Jan 69 and Nov. 71, 1 every 11.3 months.

But imagine how much better, and more successful they would have been, if they'd had the commitment to spend 4 years writing / rewriting those songs, before they gigged them.

 

[stringthrough]

Yeah, the overall mix is important, but keep in mind OP did say that the mix he listened to had the bass barely audible, so perhaps even in the mix, there were flaws. Obviously, this is conjecture, but just about every band drama thread is conjecture seeing as we have a window into the situation by one person out of a group.

True there are different sides to every story, but maybe there was a reason they mixed the bass volume low.

 

[DeepSouth]

"They'd spent 4 years writing songs but hadn't done a gig yet...I'd say you were just saved lots of wasted time.

Any band that's been together for 4 years and never played a gig is a red flag if there ever was one.

 

[Col the plunker]

On Nov 2019 he made a thread "How do you write good bass lines?" It sounds like something was going on all along and then showing up without a bass for studio time was the final straw. On the upside, if they've been practicing for four years with no gigs, they're not a band, they're a hang.

My friend, you have hit the nail on the head. I have been following this thread with interest from the beginning.. What you have said in just a few lines simply says it all. (Respect to all other respondants).
Hope the op reads this one.

 

[KeithPas]

No disagreements about the importance of having your gear in good working order but it doesn’t sound like that was the issue as the OP described it. It sounds like the result would have been the same if you used a 60’s jazz and a Fodera.
I agree with the observation that a major red flag should have been that these guys were dinking around with their material for four years without a gig. That usually means that they no perspective whatsoever. The crummy bass mix is proof

 

[Col the plunker]

No disagreements about the importance of having your gear in good working order but it doesn’t sound like that was the issue as the OP described it. It sounds like the result would have been the same if you used a 60’s jazz and a Fodera.
I agree with the observation that a major red flag should have been that these guys were dinking around with their material for four years without a gig. That usually means that they no perspective whatsoever. The crummy bass mix is proof

Don't forget they (the band) "had vision". !!!

 

[buldog5151bass]

There is no good way to get fired.

On the flip side, they've been together 4 years and still haven't played a gig or "perfected their songs"? Getting kicked out was the best gift they could have given you.

 

[Pdaddy1978]

Welcome to show buisness!

 

[Ronzo]

But imagine how much better, and more successful they would have been, if they'd had the commitment to spend 4 years writing / rewriting those songs, before they gigged them.

I sure hope everyone had their sarcasm detectors engaged and powered on when you posted this!

 

[BassBrass]

I don't have much luck with instruments.

well, that's that.

and the image of dragging photo equipment to a recording session over a bass guitar! Priceless! Like Keystone cops or a MontePython sketch! "No! we've got to shoot the session that's as important as basic tracks you fool!" (photographer should be responsible for getting their equipment to a shoot, if the photographer is a band member that's red flag #6) Just joking, I'm a photographer who has shot sessions I've played on, but without lighting, studio lighting adds texture, work with it.

I imagine this is said in a Forrest Gump accident but what does it sound like with your accent? You express a sad-sack expectation of failure and I think you are way to sure about your conclusions about "luck", It just "Ain't necessarily so." Pls post a link to the famous thread about your bass problems, I'm sure it's interesting.

If I was a new player used to playing a short scale flat wound strings and handed a roundwound 5er, I would expect that I wouldn't be able to dampen the open strings and the result would be garbage.

 

[Renaissance]

I don't think they intentionally used you just to get the bass recorded. If these guys were very specific about what they wanted to hear on the bass, they could have just recorded it themselves. Certainly one of the guitarist could have played the track (on the studio's bass no doubt).

I think this was probably brewing for a little while. It sounds like the recording probably wasn't your best work and the constant issue of dodgy gear was more than they wanted to deal with any longer.

I fired a guitarist once from a start up band. Really nice guy, excellent musician (his parents were musicians, he was a high school band director), good singer, etc. The problem was his gear was crap and he stayed so busy teaching lessons and with school work. If we wanted to get together and rehearse he was always busy but then he would start talking about cancelling this lesson or doing this or that so he could make it. It just got to be too taxing on everyone. We felt sorry for the guy so I had to let him go. We felt like we were taking money from him with cancelled lessons that he could really use.

Bottom line - playing the bass line is only one component that keeps you in a band.

 

[beaglesandbass]

1) the band sounds like it’s going nowhere to begin with. I probably wouldn’t have joined but that’s in the past now. 4 years and they don’t have enough material to even play a gig? if they have no name recognition they’re gonna get put as an opener at any show, so maybe 25 min? they don’t have 25 minutes after 4 years? that’s pathetic. nothing lost there.

2) if you put out any money for studio time i would demand to be refunded and compensated on top of that.

3) don’t worry, a good bassist is never out of work long

 

[Yellow Bang66]

So I was in this band for six months. They'd spent 4 years writing songs but hadn't done a gig yet. Said they wanted to perfect them and stuff. Fine...bit peculiar, but I could understand wanting a full set list under your belt before gig time.

Anyhow, we gelled like cookies 'n cream (or so I thought). They had a vision and were more than happy to point out when a bass part wasn't what they were looking for. They did compliment my bass parts what I pull out the bag and really like some stuff I do.

Anyhow, time comes around for studio work to record a single, plus one extra. All goes smoothly. There's no complaints. Parts that they changed their opinion on are changed around, and the studio guy is happy with my parts (I think). Says he really likes some ideas I play.

Roll on 2 weeks post studio, and we are all in lockdown. They seem a bit quiet but nothing seems particularly off. There's a video call with the studio guy that they do, but I don't participate. I was asked before about doing a band video call regarding a music video, and I didn't mind sitting out, since I'm not the one with the vision. These guys really knew what they wanted.

I take a listen to the raw mixes whilst they're calling. I don't know if it's the guy's style of mix in which he experimented with, but you could probably hear my bass less than Jason Newsted's on the Black Album. Except I wasn't downtuned, and I was playing a 5 string Squier Jazz, borrowed from the studio guy, strung with fresh rounds and ran through a DI, with an distortion simulator on it.

It was a far cry from my usual bass - 4 string short scale, strung with flats, but unfortunately that was in repairs. My other basses are in due need of repairs too. I discovered I'm not used to playing long scale 5 string basses.

I thought nothing of the mix. He'd gone down 1 or 2 directions with the mix prior, and the band didn't like his approach, so he changed it. No biggie.

Anyhow, I can't remember if it was the morning after, or 2 days later, but I get a message from the singer. Without the fluff of saying "you're a great guy and hope you got some experience from this", he says that I'm not the right bassist for them and that "it's the wrong time to be jamming with them" and that he's sorry but wishes me best of luck.

Now at first, I was dissapointed, but I thought "Ah it's nothing out the ordinary. You win some, you lose some". But a family member kept reiterating that it was a real bad move. They said it's weird they've strung me along for six months, telling me that I'm great with the band and that we've got a good line up, only for them to drop me now.

After sending a message to the singer saying I was dissapointed, but ultimately asking for the aspect they didn't like about my playing (to take away and improve on), I was left on read.

Furthermore, the other two band members didn't even wish me a farewell or a good luck or nothing. Not in the group chat. Not privately. I was removed from the studio chat we had overnight, but not from the band chat.

These reasons compounded made me warm to the idea that what they did wasn't that nice. Maybe it's me, but I'd be keen to know your experiences and opinions.

Oh well, Probably a blessing in diguise. whew! 4 years without a gig?!? sounds like one of them is a little "chicken".Your studio work story reminded me of a story whenI was in Art school...
Years ago while I was in college, I had an instructor in a design class, who was a little shy to Harshly criticize student work! I think he did this not to devastate us pupils. I remember during Critiques, when it was obvious when there was a subpar assignment up on the board, You would expect him to "burn it,Down!" in for art sake, but he would just pause& stand there and say "Interesting?". My buddy & me would snicker in the back cause we were a-holes, we had an inside joke that he never call any one out for obvious Fails, but we never wanted our projects to be Called "Interesting"... He saved our precious egos, but we never Learned/improved under his instruction. So I always take it as... a Good but missing the mark, not a total Fail,but needs work or more time, trying to preserve you ego.
I'm sure your playing was Good but in reading your story. It kind of implies, They just weren't happy with your perfomance in the studio,(excluding you from calls,& not returning calls or acknowledging your dismissal. It sounds Chicken Sh*t, but they haven't even gigged in 4 Years!! they're probably gonna milk the production of that "demo/single for another 4! Consider your self lucky they spared you of that Misery!!
My best friend has a saying, when I feel cheated,Yeah it Sucks! and some people Suck Hard! His advise Is: "You got to A. I. M. Higher"(Acknowledge, Improve, Move on!to Higher goals)" yeah I know it sounds real cliche' but its good advise, He Manages a Huge sales staff Sucessfully! He always tells me this, if he notices me getting stuck on some bad luck situation. You are better off getting out early, rather than later with these kind of a-holes! good Lord! 4 years of rehearsing & no gigs! No Thanks!Onward & upward! I say! it's a shame people can be so gutless, who knows what they'd do to you, if there was any money was involved?!? Good-Bye, Bye! Felicia!

 

[Londo Molari]

Some people are just no damn good. Don't let yourself become one of them.

 

[DJ Bebop]

So I was in this band for six months. They'd spent 4 years writing songs but hadn't done a gig yet. Said they wanted to perfect them and stuff. Fine...bit peculiar, but I could understand wanting a full set list under your belt before gig time.

Anyhow, we gelled like cookies 'n cream (or so I thought). They had a vision and were more than happy to point out when a bass part wasn't what they were looking for. They did compliment my bass parts what I pull out the bag and really like some stuff I do.

Anyhow, time comes around for studio work to record a single, plus one extra. All goes smoothly. There's no complaints. Parts that they changed their opinion on are changed around, and the studio guy is happy with my parts (I think). Says he really likes some ideas I play.

Roll on 2 weeks post studio, and we are all in lockdown. They seem a bit quiet but nothing seems particularly off. There's a video call with the studio guy that they do, but I don't participate. I was asked before about doing a band video call regarding a music video, and I didn't mind sitting out, since I'm not the one with the vision. These guys really knew what they wanted.

I take a listen to the raw mixes whilst they're calling. I don't know if it's the guy's style of mix in which he experimented with, but you could probably hear my bass less than Jason Newsted's on the Black Album. Except I wasn't downtuned, and I was playing a 5 string Squier Jazz, borrowed from the studio guy, strung with fresh rounds and ran through a DI, with an distortion simulator on it.

It was a far cry from my usual bass - 4 string short scale, strung with flats, but unfortunately that was in repairs. My other basses are in due need of repairs too. I discovered I'm not used to playing long scale 5 string basses.

I thought nothing of the mix. He'd gone down 1 or 2 directions with the mix prior, and the band didn't like his approach, so he changed it. No biggie.

Anyhow, I can't remember if it was the morning after, or 2 days later, but I get a message from the singer. Without the fluff of saying "you're a great guy and hope you got some experience from this", he says that I'm not the right bassist for them and that "it's the wrong time to be jamming with them" and that he's sorry but wishes me best of luck.

Now at first, I was dissapointed, but I thought "Ah it's nothing out the ordinary. You win some, you lose some". But a family member kept reiterating that it was a real bad move. They said it's weird they've strung me along for six months, telling me that I'm great with the band and that we've got a good line up, only for them to drop me now.

After sending a message to the singer saying I was dissapointed, but ultimately asking for the aspect they didn't like about my playing (to take away and improve on), I was left on read.

Furthermore, the other two band members didn't even wish me a farewell or a good luck or nothing. Not in the group chat. Not privately. I was removed from the studio chat we had overnight, but not from the band chat.

These reasons compounded made me warm to the idea that what they did wasn't that nice. Maybe it's me, but I'd be keen to know your experiences and opinions.

"So I was in this band for six months. They'd spent 4 years writing songs but hadn't done a gig yet."

They aren't ready.

"Anyhow, time comes around for studio work to record a single, plus one extra. All goes smoothly. There's no complaints. Parts that they changed their opinion on are changed around, and the studio guy is happy with my parts (I think). Says he really likes some ideas I play."

Those recordings aren't going to do anything for them.

"It was a far cry from my usual bass - 4 string short scale, strung with flats, but unfortunately that was in repairs. My other basses are in due need of repairs too. I discovered I'm not used to playing long scale 5 string basses."

You weren't ready.

It was a learning expense for you as far as judging people and situations and your own preparedness.
Learn from it, grow and be ready for the next real situation with real people and have yourself and your gear
ready to go.

Myself, I wouldn't waste my time trying to garner feedback from them. They can't even judge what they are doing, let alone tell someone else what they need to be doing. You just need to get out of your feelings and move on.

 

[Ryan L.]

Please tell me this “band” has a Facebook page or some other online presence...and if so, what is it? I gotta see if they put any of these masterpieces they’ve been crafting for 4 years online.

Edit: Maybe their stuff is amazing. But I just can’t imagine wasting 4 years trying to “get it perfected”, so I’d love to check out just what it is they’re up to.

 

[DJ Bebop]

Once they heard the playback of their 4 years of crafting their opus.
They were looking for an excuse for their own inadequacies.
You were it.

Was it the appropriate way to be fired?
No

 

[Cutter8]

To answer the original question posed, setting aside all the other points being discussed:
No, it certainly was not an appropriate way to be fired.