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Washburn Force ABT tuner upgrade?

CRJ1961

CRJ1961

Feb 9, 2018
7
3
Laramie, WY
#1
Pretty new to TB and wondering if there are some other Washburn Force ABT'ers on here? I have the 4 and 5 versions and am interested in upgrading the tuning machines on at least the 5 string. There is a lot of "slop" in them which makes tuning a 5 all the more challenging. I've read lots of reviews about various tuner companies but am specifically wondering if anyone on here has done this upgrade on a Washburn Force ABT 5-string? If so, could you share the details of your project (brand, size/model of machines, satisfaction/recommendations)?

Thanks,
crj
 
#2
'Slop' doesn't matter when you tune up to pitch like you should; if you overshoot the mark take it flat and tune up again. That 'slop', actually called 'lash' is present on all tuners to some extent and exactly the reason you tune up rather than down. Tuning up to pitch puts the lash on the leading side of the gear so string tension can't pull the lash out. Tuning down to pitch does the opposite. If you are having problems with the string going from flat to sharp at the slightest turn of the key, take a look at your nut, it may need some attention. It could have rough spots that bind the string and suddenly let go, it could need widening, or it could just need a little lubrication. Loosen the string and use a pencil to lube up the slot to help the string slide better.

Of the two five strings I have managed to peruse, one has Gotoh res-o-lite tuners, and the other has a knock off of some sort. So The Gotoh res-o-lite, the Hipshot ultralite, or the Schaller M4 90 will fit.
 
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#3
Thanks for your helpful reply. I recently bought the used Washburn Force 5 off ebay. Upon arrival it had a few obvious issues, reflected in intonation issues and bridge placement and nut condition. Nothing that made it unplayable but enough that I was a bit surprised. These issues were significantly different than I've experienced with the Washburn Force 4 I've been playing the past nine or ten years. So I took it to my local shop for some inspection and measurements. After trying other options first, he ended up moving the bridge 3/16" and virtually all the intonation issues were resolved. He also filed the nut slot on the B string as it was binding badly. He mentioned the tuning key "lash" was pretty unimpressive and mentioned that it was not a big job to replace them with better quality ones and encouraged me to change them myself. He mentioned Gotoh and Schaller too. He suggested I get them online because that would be cheaper than me getting them from his store and paying him to do the switch. So, I started doing a little reading and that led me to inquire here of other Washburn Force ABT owners. I'm enjoying the process of getting to know my new instrument and all its idiosyncrasies. It's like being in the beginning stages of a new relationship! :)
Thanks again for your kind and informative response!
 
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#5
Cool, thanks I'll check into those.

The adjustment screw in the saddle for the B could not be adjusted far enough to resolve intonation variance as one traveled down the fret board. I had two experienced techs look at it and they came to the same conclusion. The second tech moved the whole bridge "south" about 3/16", filed the nut slot for the B, actually slightly bent the B where it rode up over the saddle and then the intonation variations were gone.
 
#6
CRJ1961 said:
Cool, thanks I'll check into those.

The adjustment screw in the saddle for the B could not be adjusted far enough to resolve intonation variance as one traveled down the fret board. I had two experienced techs look at it and they came to the same conclusion. The second tech moved the whole bridge "south" about 3/16", filed the nut slot for the B, actually slightly bent the B where it rode up over the saddle and then the intonation variations were gone.
Click to expand...

...which is what they should have done in the first place prior to relocating the bridge. Witness points / String Install 101. Glad you got it up and goin'!

Riis
 
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#7
Hey Riis, my tech actually DID do that first. Sorry I wasn't more clear about the order of their work in my other post. :wacky:

from my reply to Sissy Kathy above: ..."So I took it to my local shop for some inspection and measurements. After trying other options first, he ended up moving the bridge 3/16" and virtually all the intonation issues were resolved."...

Your response is reassuring that my tech is pretty knowledgeable. I admit I was a bit surprised that when he told me about bending the B over the saddle. He explained that the inner core wire would "take and hold a set" which would reduce the high arc over the saddle of the B. He also has been very generous with his time in explaining some of the intricacies of tuning. He's even got me reading up on inharmonicity!

Thanks again for jumping in to help. There is a wealth of knowledge here on TB!
craig
 
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#8
This thread should be of interest to you.
The Official Washburn Club (Part 3)

Hipshop ultralites are available at a reasonable cost here, you want 3/8" posts, I don't know of a place to get either the Gotoh or the Schallers at a reduced cost. The USA Hipshots and the licensed copies vary slightly, get either all licensed or all USA.
The Official Washburn Club (Part 3)
 
#9
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#10
CRJ1961 said:
Hey Riis, my tech actually DID do that first. Sorry I wasn't more clear about the order of their work in my other post. :wacky:

from my reply to Sissy Kathy above: ..."So I took it to my local shop for some inspection and measurements. After trying other options first, he ended up moving the bridge 3/16" and virtually all the intonation issues were resolved."...

Your response is reassuring that my tech is pretty knowledgeable. I admit I was a bit surprised that when he told me about bending the B over the saddle. He explained that the inner core wire would "take and hold a set" which would reduce the high arc over the saddle of the B. He also has been very generous with his time in explaining some of the intricacies of tuning. He's even got me reading up on inharmonicity!

Thanks again for jumping in to help. There is a wealth of knowledge here on TB!
craig
Click to expand...

Yeah, we rarely see intonation issues which actually require bridge re-positioning hence my thinly-veiled skepticism. The vast majority of problems reside with practices which ignore the basic tenets of string installation. Here's a good read on the subject(s)...if you can grasp and apply only 20% of the content, you'll be well-ahead of some of the techs in the field:

Stringing, Tuning, Intonation and Witnesses

Riis
 
#11
sissy kathy said:
This thread should be of interest to you.
The Official Washburn Club (Part 3)

Hipshop ultralites are available at a reasonable cost here, you want 3/8" posts, I don't know of a place to get either the Gotoh or the Schallers at a reduced cost. The USA Hipshots and the licensed copies vary slightly, get either all licensed or all USA.
Bass Tuning Machines Tuning Keys Posts from BassStringsOnline
Click to expand...

I just clicked on the BassSTringsOnline link and got "coming soon".... [1340/24Dec 19]
 

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