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WBO 23 - Creating Surreal Kaos!
- Thread starter AbnormalForms
- Start date
Several, actually. My go-to is the Prusa i3 MK3. Great machine, never really worried of it screwing up a print, just press go, even though it is my most repaired printer. I printed the skeleton piece on it, that's why it looks great (imo). Most of the stuff I posted/will post here is printed on a Creality CR-30. It's very helpful for having these parts be one long piece, less points of contention for breaking points. Finally, I have a Creality CR-10 V2 that I modified to be able to print CF Nylon, which I have yet to find an actual use for at the moment, but could be useful in the future.
Here's my "workshop" for them (look away if you hate messes):
And in here is my nerdiness in this build that could pass more as just crazy nonsense.
I mean, if nerdiness is the only factor, we have a clear winner already! Great stuff.
That's going to be one of the coolest fretboards ever.The fretboard, which I am planning on filling both sides with differently colored resin:
I, at least the last time I checked, am not a bass guitar or other instrument created within the last month and a half unfortunately, so I have no such guarantee... Or am I?
I sure hope so. I tested the resin on another project, but never got around to actually finishing it... Dunno how it'll hold up in the long run, but I guess I'll find out.
More progress. I cut out several slots and printed test pieces for the bridge, pickup, and head piece, making sure they all lined up correctly. Always remembering to cut once and measure 5 times to figure out where you messed up.
Might be a little difficult to see here, but the holes I made for the screws for the bridge were slightly off, the head piece didn't completely fit into the test part, and the walls around the bridge were slightly too tight. Pickup cut was just right, might add a couple of spacers under the Alumitone so that you can't see underneath it. With all these in mind, I added the changes to the model, and with time slipping by, decided to finally start printing the big middle section of the bass.
Yup, 86 hours indeed. Always nerve wracking for a print to fail 3 days into it to have a whole wasted roll and start over. Normally, I print these long sections with the fretboard facing down on the bed to avoid the wasted cyan supports in the image above, but this one was a special case. One, the treadmill bed leaves a very noticeable and kinda ugly pattern on that side of the print that I'd rather not deal with, and two, because I decided for some God forsaken reason to make the treble wing slanted (being higher at the bottom of the bass), the top isn't completely flat like the rest of my previous projects, and chopping it up to make it so is also something I don't want to deal with. So big clunky supports it is. For those unfamiliar with this process, here's a couple more screenshots at how the thing will look like on the inside:
And with that file made, all that's left is to load it up into the printer:
There it goes! Fingers crossed none of the supports decide they don't need to be there... Anyways, still wanted to make a time lapse video of it printing and set up an old college laptop to record it, so we'll see how that turns out. I was going to work on the fretboard while the big piece prints, but I think I want to retry printing it to get rid off all that wavy junk (that and I forgot to cut holes in the first model for side dots) so I'll have to wait for this to finish first. Yay waiting!
Might be a little difficult to see here, but the holes I made for the screws for the bridge were slightly off, the head piece didn't completely fit into the test part, and the walls around the bridge were slightly too tight. Pickup cut was just right, might add a couple of spacers under the Alumitone so that you can't see underneath it. With all these in mind, I added the changes to the model, and with time slipping by, decided to finally start printing the big middle section of the bass.
Yup, 86 hours indeed. Always nerve wracking for a print to fail 3 days into it to have a whole wasted roll and start over. Normally, I print these long sections with the fretboard facing down on the bed to avoid the wasted cyan supports in the image above, but this one was a special case. One, the treadmill bed leaves a very noticeable and kinda ugly pattern on that side of the print that I'd rather not deal with, and two, because I decided for some God forsaken reason to make the treble wing slanted (being higher at the bottom of the bass), the top isn't completely flat like the rest of my previous projects, and chopping it up to make it so is also something I don't want to deal with. So big clunky supports it is. For those unfamiliar with this process, here's a couple more screenshots at how the thing will look like on the inside:
And with that file made, all that's left is to load it up into the printer:
There it goes! Fingers crossed none of the supports decide they don't need to be there... Anyways, still wanted to make a time lapse video of it printing and set up an old college laptop to record it, so we'll see how that turns out. I was going to work on the fretboard while the big piece prints, but I think I want to retry printing it to get rid off all that wavy junk (that and I forgot to cut holes in the first model for side dots) so I'll have to wait for this to finish first. Yay waiting!
Welp, looks pike I didn't cross my fingers hard enough. Once again let down by supports failing, however, it wasn't that the supports themselves popped off, more along the lines of the thing they were supporting did. In the kaoss pad holder, there are these forked arms that act as dividers for the wires leading in and out of the kaoss pad and with the orientation that I was printing these in, they started in mid air. Almost immediately when the printer hit that section, one of them popped off the supports and somehow jammed itself under the print head enough to cause the gantry to shift upwards, making it so that the print wasn't even touching the bed anymore.
As is the nature of life, always teaching you lessons. Here I learned to not replace Atlas with a thin line of plastic. Oh well, even though I lost half a roll and a day and a half of time, it wasn't all for naught. Now I can use this unfinished piece to fix up any lingering issues with the model before throwing more plastic at it. The finicky treadmill printer has a slightly different tolerance than the Prusa that I used to print the test parts, and so they naturally just barely don't fit together. Going to take this into account the next time I try printing this piece, along with just removing the forked arms from the model and attaching them separately later.
Besides that, everything fit quite well with what was printed out here, although it would've been nice to have it get to the electronics box to test out that fitting as well, but I'll take less wasted plastic any day.
As is the nature of life, always teaching you lessons. Here I learned to not replace Atlas with a thin line of plastic. Oh well, even though I lost half a roll and a day and a half of time, it wasn't all for naught. Now I can use this unfinished piece to fix up any lingering issues with the model before throwing more plastic at it. The finicky treadmill printer has a slightly different tolerance than the Prusa that I used to print the test parts, and so they naturally just barely don't fit together. Going to take this into account the next time I try printing this piece, along with just removing the forked arms from the model and attaching them separately later.
Besides that, everything fit quite well with what was printed out here, although it would've been nice to have it get to the electronics box to test out that fitting as well, but I'll take less wasted plastic any day.
The goin's slow, but not stopped. After the above print failed, I tried printing a different, less time consuming piece on it, but it kept pulling up from the bed on one side. After throwing several prints and not nice words at the machine, I tried changing the software, getting the same result and I finally realized it was the nozzle that had gone bad. After replacing that, it started to work fine again and I started the big middle piece on it again, deciding to split up the treble side "skeleton" wing into two parts to print on the Prusa. As per usual, they turned out great:
They're not quite sitting right next to each other due to the picky wires pushing them apart. Nearly all of the stuff here will be held in place on the top "skin" along with all of the midi keys. Mainly trying to get a feel for the layout, still designing that part in the model. Anyways, while I'm waiting on the middle section to re-print, I figured I might as well take a swing at the fretboard. I wanted to keep the chaos theme with the colors, and cycled through several, but decided that I had been looking at the bright blue and yellow long enough that everything else felt off. So I mixed up some resin, sprinkled in a hefty dose of yellow dye, and poured.
Who woulda thought that the black would mix in through the thin layer of semi-transparent resin?.... Well, I like how it turned out curing wise, but the Monster energy green isn't really the color I was looking for... Will be using this on another project though, not sure what, but it fits with the black really well.
So, I want a bright yellow and bright blue on either side and black in the middle, but I'm worried about painting the inside with a primer and make the resin less adhesive to the plastic. I have a crazy idea of making a thin white plastic liner to put in the pouring pits that I think might just work, but I'm going to have to wait for the main body to finish to print out another fretboard on the treadmill printer. Gotta find more parts to print on the Prusa in the meantime I guess. Planning on making the pot caps outlined squares, maybe I'll print those next...
They're not quite sitting right next to each other due to the picky wires pushing them apart. Nearly all of the stuff here will be held in place on the top "skin" along with all of the midi keys. Mainly trying to get a feel for the layout, still designing that part in the model. Anyways, while I'm waiting on the middle section to re-print, I figured I might as well take a swing at the fretboard. I wanted to keep the chaos theme with the colors, and cycled through several, but decided that I had been looking at the bright blue and yellow long enough that everything else felt off. So I mixed up some resin, sprinkled in a hefty dose of yellow dye, and poured.
Who woulda thought that the black would mix in through the thin layer of semi-transparent resin?.... Well, I like how it turned out curing wise, but the Monster energy green isn't really the color I was looking for... Will be using this on another project though, not sure what, but it fits with the black really well.
So, I want a bright yellow and bright blue on either side and black in the middle, but I'm worried about painting the inside with a primer and make the resin less adhesive to the plastic. I have a crazy idea of making a thin white plastic liner to put in the pouring pits that I think might just work, but I'm going to have to wait for the main body to finish to print out another fretboard on the treadmill printer. Gotta find more parts to print on the Prusa in the meantime I guess. Planning on making the pot caps outlined squares, maybe I'll print those next...
About that fingerboard: do the shapes of the middle line serve as fret markers, or are they entirely random?
Might do the resin pour in multiple layers - maybe white or metalflake silver for the first layer to block the black and give the yellow a chance.
I had made the pattern random on the model, but one of the jagged pulses does coincidentally match up with the 12th fret. Had thought of matching them up, but that's not nearly chaotic enough for this (that and I'm lazy).
Not a bad idea! Was worried with the lining not fitting completely and\or popping out on it's own.
Gonna have to break off one of my fingers to twist it completely around the other to hope that this doesn't break and I have to reprint it.
It fits and sits! Only a small portion of the print got shifted down in the bridge pocket, which will make the gap between the "skin" and the main body that more noticeable, but it shouldn't be too bad.
You can also slightly see it on the above image, but the top of the bass has fine slits in it that worry me just a bit, as I had lowered the nozzle flow to make sure that the filament didn't ooze over when putting down 8 layer thick walls and am wondering if I lowered it just a bit too much that the layers didn't adhere enough there. Might find out the hard way, which would be very unfortunate, I just don't have the time left to print another before the end of the build-off. I know I probably shouldn't rush these things for a silly... er, awesome nerd contest, but these don't cost too much and I can always strip the parts off and try another time if it does break under string pressure.
Anyways, onto the fretboard!
Ah yes, that's much better. While PLA probably isn't the best choice with resin, it's what I got, so no heat gun to try and eliminate bubbles without the risk of the part warping. As a result, bubbles. But those will be sanded out once I add a radius to it, just need to get some more double sided tape to strap it down with, the stuff I currently have is shot.
More resin things:
Poured some in the bottom of the truss rod shaft with carbon fiber tow underneath as per Bruce and T_Bone's advice when I first posted on these forums to help stiffen the neck. It's a little difficult to see here since I added some blue coloring to it to see how much I was pouring in there. It still flexes a bit when I push out on the neck, which has me a bit worried, but I have an idea on how to fix that if it comes to it. For now, I'll make it future Abnormal's problem. At least the truss rod will help alleviate this, and fits in the slot perfectly. I'm planning on adding a filler block at the bot of the neck over the CF tow:
In addition to the neck, I made a channel in the back of the body to add some there as well, since I've had issues in the past with the body flexing too much:
This one was the reason I added blue to the one in the neck, very clear. I know everyone around here recommends using West Systems resin for this, but with the exothermic reaction that happens in it, I once again don't want to risk it warping the part, so generic crafting epoxy resin for me it is. No idea how it'll play out in the long run, might be too flexible. I guess my experiments will be a good example on what not to do when building a fine instrument.
I'm not really one to comment on posts, but I still lurk, and man, I've gotta say, I feel like I'm cheating with how much work and craftsmanship everyone else is putting into their builds, they look absolutely fantastic. Meanwhile, I'm over here programming a machine to spit one out for me and glue it together and calling it good enough... Then again, what's more nerdy than programming a machine to do your work for you?
What approach did you use to make the yellow stay yellow? You can pop bubbles with a toothpick. If you are not pouring a huge slug of epoxy (most people manage to melt a too-large cup of the stuff, as a cupful) the exotherm is really quite mild in thin sections. That can also be limited more by choosing slower hardener, and keeping the material near it's lower working temperature of 60°F before mixing, and mixing on a large flat surface (so it's a thin layer) rather than in a cup. I've reenforced PLA prints with epoxy and fiber with no heating or distortion (the stuff I use is essentially equivalent to West 105/207)
I went with the lining. Already had the white PLA in the mail when you suggested the white epoxy bed and figured I would try that first since I wasn't sure how white the epoxy dye I had would make it with the yellow looking that thin on the previous one (and that was like 1\3 the bottle of dye!). I printed it in parts and you can see the lines where they split under the resin. I tried covering the likes with some spare plastic, and it worked pretty well on the yellow side, bit it floated to the top on the blue side, exactly what I had feared the entire lining would do, but I just got that instead...
Either way, I still sanded it to see if it would help. It's... Alright....... Went from 120 to 2000, but I don't know if I spent enough time with each.
What brand of off brand West Systems do you use if you don't mind me asking? Am tempted to try now if this one fails.
The web site is eye-bleeding, I warn you. A throwback to the dawn of the web, and just tasteless web design. I guess they have removed the tacky background on some pages, revisiting. I refer to them as the Crazie Eddie of the epoxy business, (you may have to look up Crazy Eddie, though, as a regional and time-dependent reference.) No fraud implied, just whacky advertising as witnessed by the web design.
Progressive Epoxy Polymers : Basic No-Blush. Basic No Blush clear epoxy with bubble breaker
Compare the shipped price to being able to pick up (no shipping) West Systems at (sounds related, but actually not) a local West Marine or other boat/surf store before deciding they are a deal. But, as with West 105/207, shelf life (open, even) in decades. Which is good for non-boatbuilding uses. Mine must be 15+ years old by now, and still good (perhaps a tiny bit ambered in color. Still sets properly.)
Appears that if you want smaller amounts for lower out-of-pocket cost (but costs more per volume) there's a "sample size" of the "premium no-blush" a bit less costly.
Progressive Epoxy Polymers : Basic No-Blush. Basic No Blush clear epoxy with bubble breaker
Compare the shipped price to being able to pick up (no shipping) West Systems at (sounds related, but actually not) a local West Marine or other boat/surf store before deciding they are a deal. But, as with West 105/207, shelf life (open, even) in decades. Which is good for non-boatbuilding uses. Mine must be 15+ years old by now, and still good (perhaps a tiny bit ambered in color. Still sets properly.)
Appears that if you want smaller amounts for lower out-of-pocket cost (but costs more per volume) there's a "sample size" of the "premium no-blush" a bit less costly.
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11 days since last update? Whew, seems that I've been slacking in the frequency department... Well, my excuse is... *pulls out index cards and flips through them rapidly* Uh... I had to go to the bathroom? Yes yes, let's go with that one.
In all honesty though, we had a massive order put in at work last week and it has drained me of the will to do anything other than falling asleep in my chair in front of my computer. But that didn't completely stop me from doing at least doing a little bit on this project. Here's the catch up for past week:
Ah yes, coming home to the smell of burnt plastic and the fine plate of spaghetti that your printer has cooled up for you...
Guess I gotta keep a closer eye on this... With it restarted and a day later, I finally have all of the big pieces printed out.
The pieces are quite a bit more off than I'd like them to be, but that's what they invented bondo for to fix. Also, don't think I've mentioned it up until this point, but the colors here are irrelevant. I will be painting the actual colors over all of this in the end. But before we get to that point, I to attach the fretboard to make sure that the neck is actually up to the task of taking the weight of the strings. In prep of that, whipped out the trusty, very newly bought and never used saw to cut the slots.
Cutting for the first time blind without any guides besides the 2 marks on either side as to where the frets went was bound to work out absolutely fantastic in my favor. So of course I slipped it a couple times and left sone very nice scratches on the resin... Back to sanding it is. Oh but that's not all in the ways of noobie mistakes:
Being a lazy noob, I went and bought these precut frets, which fit great up top near the nut, but of course are too small down towards the bottom. Not to mention the sanding that I did added like no radius, so even these 12" frets are popping up and showing their stuff to everyone. Fret boards are difficult, shout-out to all the hard working men n women that make these things look easy. Anyways, I quickly got on ebay and ordered some uncut flat frets after this whole debacle and should be showing up later today (Monday) hopefully. I did go ahead and design and print out my own beveling block though, can't wait to try that out:
In the meantime, I started gluing the skeleton on and made sure that the skin fit over it.
Once that had set, I went and glued on the bottom half of the treble side of the skin with a combination of quick set super glue and 2 part epoxy. The reason I printed it the treble side of the skin in half like this was to save plastic on supports and get the smoothest surface that I can so that I can spend less time sanding it and not worrying about me messing that up (like I already have elsewhere...) (Curse my lazy weak nerd arms).
7 days to the deadline you say? Hmm... Well, if there's anything I learned from college it's that procrastination is one heck of a drug. Time for crunching!
In all honesty though, we had a massive order put in at work last week and it has drained me of the will to do anything other than falling asleep in my chair in front of my computer. But that didn't completely stop me from doing at least doing a little bit on this project. Here's the catch up for past week:
Ah yes, coming home to the smell of burnt plastic and the fine plate of spaghetti that your printer has cooled up for you...
Guess I gotta keep a closer eye on this... With it restarted and a day later, I finally have all of the big pieces printed out.
The pieces are quite a bit more off than I'd like them to be, but that's what they invented bondo for to fix. Also, don't think I've mentioned it up until this point, but the colors here are irrelevant. I will be painting the actual colors over all of this in the end. But before we get to that point, I to attach the fretboard to make sure that the neck is actually up to the task of taking the weight of the strings. In prep of that, whipped out the trusty, very newly bought and never used saw to cut the slots.
Cutting for the first time blind without any guides besides the 2 marks on either side as to where the frets went was bound to work out absolutely fantastic in my favor. So of course I slipped it a couple times and left sone very nice scratches on the resin... Back to sanding it is. Oh but that's not all in the ways of noobie mistakes:
Being a lazy noob, I went and bought these precut frets, which fit great up top near the nut, but of course are too small down towards the bottom. Not to mention the sanding that I did added like no radius, so even these 12" frets are popping up and showing their stuff to everyone. Fret boards are difficult, shout-out to all the hard working men n women that make these things look easy. Anyways, I quickly got on ebay and ordered some uncut flat frets after this whole debacle and should be showing up later today (Monday) hopefully. I did go ahead and design and print out my own beveling block though, can't wait to try that out:
In the meantime, I started gluing the skeleton on and made sure that the skin fit over it.
Once that had set, I went and glued on the bottom half of the treble side of the skin with a combination of quick set super glue and 2 part epoxy. The reason I printed it the treble side of the skin in half like this was to save plastic on supports and get the smoothest surface that I can so that I can spend less time sanding it and not worrying about me messing that up (like I already have elsewhere...) (Curse my lazy weak nerd arms).
7 days to the deadline you say? Hmm... Well, if there's anything I learned from college it's that procrastination is one heck of a drug. Time for crunching!
Not to complicate this time, but for your next time...
Having trouble finding a radius sanding block for my bass
Feel free to make it fancier, but there's a Q&D radius block of whatever radius you want.
As for the deadline, aside from enjoying "the wooshing sound it makes as it flies by" (that's a nerd reference, of course) you can get to playable, enter, and deal with some details later, rather than rushing them and boogering them up but good.
Greatly appreciated, thanks for all the references and resources throughout the build! Not sure what my next project will be, but all this info will be great for it.
I think that after this build I'm going to try some actual experiments on 3d printed necks (you know, things I should have done waaay before making full builds...). I've seen many guitars and basses that only have 3d printed bodies with bolt on wooden necks and rarely ever the other way around, for probably obvious reasons... But I would love to find out what the best, most stable, lightest, cheapest, and most durable possible builds there are for 3d printed necks, mainly just to share the info on such a poorly researched topic (probably because no one is crazy enough to try...) and I'm crazy enough to try.
But I've also gotta be crazy enough to try and finish this one first without, as you had said, screwing it up in the process to get the rest of the details just right.
