What’s the best way to deal with a drummer who plays too slow?

[Shalto]

So much easier for a drummer to drag a guitarist round than vice versa. Whole lot less obvious to an audience as well. Other options: Guitar breaks almost always end on a big sustained bendy something that ain't all that rhythmically dogmatic. Drummer does a roll in to warn the guitarist to watch where the tempo is about to go.

Even if the guitarist is clicked up (ain't gonna happen. almost never a need for it.) there is still the issue of synchronizing his click with the one the drummer is using.

Yes but.

Depends on your ear sensitivity. Some listeners notice a player getting dragged back.

Also re your last paragraph, in the example given above guitarist is a quaver ahead so their new one is between clicks not on. That's a tasty challenge for staying in time oncethey are joined by the rest of the ensemble. It's also a recipe for disaster if there are preprogrammed backing tracks and/or visual effects to the click...

But even in a scenario where there is no click, no unaccompanied sections of a song etc, the band still sounds better if they are all taking responsibility for the groove and not being wrangled by the drums when they wander off.

 

[factory presets]

Generally set my click to the basic division. Usually a quaver in 4/4 I believe.

When there's drums most people lock right on to them. No wrangling involved. Which is why I'd contend that the drummer is defacto responsible for the tempo. The more everyone can hold up their end of the rhythmic contract, the better. In that respect I agree with you. But, in the heat of the moment, the drummer is best placed to do something about it

 

[Shalto]

Generally set my click to the basic division. Usually a quaver in 4/4 I believe.

When there's drums most people lock right on to them. No wrangling involved. Which is why I'd contend that the drummer is defacto responsible for the tempo. The more everyone can hold up their end of the rhythmic contract, the better. In that respect I agree with you. But, in the heat of the moment, the drummer is best placed to do something about it

Oh yes, the snare on two and four are like the emergency services in a traiwreck

 

[mark harison]

I appreciate your politeness. I'm going to try to persuade you though .

Here's an example. Imagine a band where the drummer is considered the time keeper, both by the drummer and their bandmates. To aid themselves in this duty, the drummer plays to a click via IEM and the band follows.

During a performance of their best song, there is a four measure break where the guitar plays unaccompanied. The drummer stops as per the structure of the song. During this four measure break the guitarist, subtley rushing, steals a quaver.

Does the drummer come back in at the rushing pace of the guitarist? probably not a disaster but at the end if the song the BL is annoyed and glares at the drummer "I told you not to rush this, time is your reaponsability"

Or does the drummer insist of playing to the click (technically having kept time but it sure wont sound like it) and the coming back in his anywhere from awkward to full blown train wreck. The band leader glares "This is your responsibility..."

Hopefully this illustrates why *everyone* has duty to keep time.

Okay let's agree to disagree and go grab a cold one. How about that? Count us off.

 

[SBassman]

There are two different elements to this story.

1. The starting tempo.
2. The tempo maintained throughout the song.

There is absolutely no reason in the universe why the drummer owns #1. It can, and should, be anyone in the band.

EVERYONE in the band shares in the responsibility for #2. Players that don't get that - are the players not taking responsibility for something they should be sharing in. Yeah, a band Can assign someone, like the drummer, to be able to push and pull for adjustment if necessary - if everyone understands they should be following that player. But beyond that, the Whole band shares this responsibility.

I'm sorry. I just have played with too many otherwise "great" players in my life who had crappy time - and had no clue. The damage it does to the overall output of the band is massive.

If you can't play a string of notes in time, just plain don't play the string of notes. That would be Better. Somehow, the music world evolved to a place where vast numbers of players do Not get this.

 

[LBS-bass]

There are two different elements to this story.

1. The starting tempo.
2. The tempo maintained throughout the song.

There is absolutely no reason in the universe why the drummer owns #1. It can, and should, be anyone in the band.

EVERYONE in the band shares in the responsibility for #2. Players that don't get that - are the players not taking responsibility for something they should be sharing in. Yeah, a band Can assign someone, like the drummer, to be able to push and pull for adjustment if necessary - if everyone understands they should be following that player. But beyond that, the Whole band shares this responsibility.

I'm sorry. I just have played with too many otherwise "great" players in my life who had crappy time - and had no clue. The damage it does to the overall output of the band is massive.

If you can't play a string of notes in time, just plain don't play the string of notes. That would be Better. Somehow, the music world evolved to a place where vast numbers of players do Not get this.

+1

Though I would call this de-evolution, myself. And I think it's a product of less formal music instruction in grade schools combined with self-instruction via the internet where learners pick and choose what they're going to focus on. Focusing on tempo isn't fun as a learner, but you can still learn to play a lot of notes and join a band without ever realizing you're not fully prepared for that. I say this as someone who is mostly self-taught, so it's not a dig. Though I did have music instruction in school, there were still many gaps in my resume when I started playing out with others.

 

[upgroove9]

Played in a band where the guitarist threw her amp head at the drummer before storming out. Missed him completely, but took his brand new, stand-mounted toms out. So so funny. Although he didn't think so. And I got to make jokes about he's lucky she's a girl and throws like one.

 

[upgroove9]

Don’t think I’d tell her that. Especially not the drummer (former, lol )!

 

[mark harison]

All drummers can count to four. Do we really need to rain on their parade?

In all fairness some can count to eight.

 

[SBassman]

Hysterical.

I have 50 musical years on the planet now, and all the counting challenged I have played with - have been guitarists and bass players.

 

[upgroove9]

There are two different elements to this story.

1. The starting tempo.
2. The tempo maintained throughout the song.

There is absolutely no reason in the universe why the drummer owns #1. It can, and should, be anyone in the band.

EVERYONE in the band shares in the responsibility for #2. Players that don't get that - are the players not taking responsibility for something they should be sharing in. Yeah, a band Can assign someone, like the drummer, to be able to push and pull for adjustment if necessary - if everyone understands they should be following that player. But beyond that, the Whole band shares this responsibility.

I'm sorry. I just have played with too many otherwise "great" players in my life who had crappy time - and had no clue. The damage it does to the overall output of the band is massive.

If you can't play a string of notes in time, just plain don't play the string of notes. That would be Better. Somehow, the music world evolved to a place where vast numbers of players do Not get this.

 

[upgroove9]

We all have the responsibility-guitar players, drums, keyboards, vocals, since rhythm is part of all our repertoire. There are situations where the drummer may play intentionally behind or in front of the beat for effect. Also at least in jazz groups the leader may take the tune out of time completely, for effect. So it’s usually up to the drummer to keep things together and swinging tight. I speak as a drummer who can even count to five, lol. Just starting bass, it’s harder than drums. But on bass I make sure my timing is rock solid just like my super bright hi hats on drums. As for what to do with your wayward drummer, have you had him sit down and listen to the DVD/video etc Perhaps also play a metronome while he listens?

 

[MintDragon]

chuckling that this thread is still going.

 

[lowphatbass]

chuckling that this thread is still going.

Thanks to you....a month later

 

[Lagado]

Catnip is what you need.

 

[EXCAV8]

What can we do to get him to play at the right speed?

 

[DWBass]

Drummer in my R&B band is like that. For some reason he doesn't memorize song tempos. Some songs he starts slow and others breakneck fast. And he likes to bang saying he can't hear himself.

 

[lokikallas]

Lol, don’t hand me the sticks, because I’ll show you how it’s done. New drummer or new band.