What basses have the worse "neck dive" issues

[jojoslap]

I had a 99 Warwick Thumb BO and I can also concur that neck dive was pretty bad, it did sound great and played nice.

 

[1958Bassman]

I'm always a little confused abt "neck dive". I've played for 30 years and honestly the most I can say is that I've sensed a bass may be a little headstock heavy but it has never been an issue for me. I always figured "it's a bass, the headstock is a long way from the body creating fulcrum/balance issues, deal with it". Seriously I never give it much of a passing thought, although I will say some basses are just too heavy but I have often wondered if they were designed that way to balance a heavy neck. Also my thought is that once I grip the neck the weight of my hand and arm are going to throw off any balance concerns making any bass neck dive unless I counteract with right hand/forearm pressure.

So time to teach an old dog new tricks. Tell me IYO some brands, models/year that have the worse neck dive and some makes that are the most balanced. I'd like to make a conscious comparison.

Most asymmetrical bass bodies have the strap button at the 12th Fret and of not, the body weight is used to counteract the neck dive. A smaller, symmetric body may be countered by a thinner or narrower neck, if they want it to balance correctly.

I have an old SD Curlee and it dives. I rest my forearm on the body when I play, so it's not a problem when I stand & play. Sitting, it dips but I don't really care- I like this bass.

 

[jamminology101]

My findings as well. This is a good at-a-glance indicator of how a lot of basses will hang on a strap.

There are exceptions. I have a J copy with a solid, hefty body and the upper horn extends just beyond the 12th fret. The thing is though, it also has a rather hefty Warmoth neck (steel reinforcing rods, not graphite). This bass doesn't have significant neck dive, but the neck isn't quite as "buoyant" on a strap as some other instruments out there.

Went against my better judgment a few years back when I got a gorgeous Warwick Corvette (wenge, bubinga, etc.). Actually thought about having a luthier install an extension on the upper horn just to help the thing balance, but I just unloaded it. Their Fortress looks like one of the only models that might balance okay.

The fortress balances unbelievable. ..horn goes to the 11fret!!! It just sifs there with the headstock pointed up. Great tone and ergonomics.

 

[MEKer]

The Washburn B-20 Stage Bass, while being one of the most exquisitely made basses I have ever handled, dives like a Stuka--I mean to the f'in floor!. I about cried when I sold it because of the neck-dive. Like earlier stated, I refuse to combat dive in order to play. But I wish I still had it just because 1.) its a totally beautiful vintage Washburn model and 2.) the joy of examining the craftsmanship of the Matsumoko factory of this bass. When look at live shots of Pete Way, bassist for UFO, you often see him playing the bass with the headstock almost straight up, maybe a 15 degree angle so all the weight of the bass rests on the butt strap button.

 

[LakeEffect]

Warwick thumb, such bummer, I love the sound and compact body - but both of those factors contribute to neck dive.

 

[wizerd]

Epi Jack Casady. Great looking wicked sounding bass but the headstock wouldnt stay off the floor. Still wish I hadnt sold it though.

 

[Winston TK]

My '91 Hamer B12s short-scale 12-string bass. The headstock alone weights about 49 pounds. The fretting arm gets quite the workout just supporting the neck all the time. But, still a glorious bass. Its overall mass turns my sorry clavicle to chalk, but it's one of the most beautiful looking and unique instruments I own. No plans to unload it in the the foreseeable future. I'll probably just put it on a stand whenever I play it live on stage.

 

[Mystic Michael]

Warwick Thumb bass. That guy looooves to be horizontal. Had to sell mine, the neck dive plus the long reach was killing me. Ended up selling it to a tall guy with long arms who loved it.

Interesting. I actually clicked on this thread to glean information about the Warwick Thumb Bass specifically. I've heard this about the Warwick Thumb, but haven't actually tried one out - yet.

Actually, I kind of like to play it at least semi-horizontal (just so it doesn't dip below that). And I happen to be a tall guy with long arms - probably close to a five-foot wingspan, fingertip to fingertip. So that might just work.

MM

 

[bassist4dalord]

Any acoustic bass really. Other than that, I haven't owned any neck divers.

 

[GIBrat51]

I think it depends on your definition of "neck-dive". Some people feel that if their bass moves at all when they jump around like a loon without touching it, it's a diver. Not surprisingly, to them, almost all basses (except theirs) suffer from this. I have some basses that will stay where you put them; but I've never been much for moving around while playing, and I'm far to old now for jumping around, anyway.

Some people think a bass is a diver if it just likes to be parallel with the floor. My Ricks, P-Bass, Carvin, and Kramer Forum III do this. With the right strap, they stay put just fine, so it's not a problem.

Then there are people (like me) that define "neck-dive" as the headstock heading for the floor any time you take your hands off them. These are my 2; Kramer 450B and Gibson T-Bird. I knew they were notorious divers when I bought them; the sound I get from them is worth the bother. Especially the Kramer. I never wear a grippy strap when I play it; it will just pull my shirt off (and has) if I do. The T-Bird is not nearly as bad. To me, it dives just enough to make me wish it didn't. Like I said, the tone from both of them is worth the bother.

So, it depends on your definition. To me, neck dive has never been a consideration. If a bass sounds good, looks good, and my frettin' hand is happy, then it's mine. Besides, I spent 20+ years lugging a muzzle heavy, 24 lb. machine gun around; a neck heavy 10 lb. bass is not a problem.

 

[heynorm]

'65 Vox Cougar fully hollow-body bass. Very light, but you need a strap that will hold on to your shoulder.

 

[Twocanbassman]

Even worse than the Kramer 450b was the DMZ5000. It had a shorter upper horn which led it to dive towards the floor, the second I let go of the neck. The edges of the body were edgy as well - very uncomfortable. I wish it didn't sound so good, it would be easier to hate!

 

[Mudcat35]

Thunderbirds dive. Badly. I don't play one anymore.

 

[Jim C]

Metal neck Kramer and EB3
I have wanted to buy one of these but every time I try one with a strap I pass

 

[Mark4]

I'm with the OP and mjac28 on this one. I own 2 Thumbs, notorious for "neck dive" and I've never had a problem balancing the bass while I play. The NT Thumb 6 is very heavy, at a fat 'n sassy 12 lbs, but I've never had problems with the neck being elsewhere than in my hands on either guitar. Maybe height and length of arms has something to do with that as I'm 6'7".

I think body type has a lot to do with it. Neither of my two Thunderbirds neck-dive, for instance. Not even while moving around with both hands off. Playing the keyboard is possible with one strapped on. I'm about 6'2", in decent shape, and have long arms.

That being said, my two Jazz basses neck-dive, but they have light bodies + the heavy long-stem style vintage tuning machines. It isn't unexpected given their specs. Ones with heavy bodies and light tuning machines may not neck-dive at all, but mine do. FWIW, it isn't bad enough for me to do anything about it, but it's there.

 

[Watchootognbout]

I have two Tune TWB63 six string basses.One fretted.One fretless.Both dive like a nuclear sub.But that's OK.Because I have a cheap cure for the neck heavy bass!!Take an old belt.(I prefer an old dress belt)Shorten it so that it can wrap around your upper thigh.Mine is about 25 inches long.Drill some new holes so you can buckle it.Now,with your bass strapped on feed the belt from outside the back of your upper thigh inbetween your legs.Then between your bass and the strap.Wrap the belt around your upper thigh of your right leg to complete a loop and buckle it!(First picture)Tighten it so that it is snug enough.There!Your bass neck is angle at a good playing angle.(Second picture)



Now the neck doesn't dive!You can walk around with it.Your left arm doesn't have to support the weight of the neck.And your right arm doesn't have to push down on the body's upper edge.You can fret and play your bass with less forearm muscle tension.


This works by using a lever and fulcrum basis.Your bass is a lever.Your neck and shoulders together are a fulcrum.You can either decrease weight on one end of the "Lever"(the neck) to raise the neck.Or you could increase the weight or"counterbalance"and/or anchor the other end.The belt "dead ends"or anchors the shortest end of the "lever" without adding weight.Try it out!
__________________

 

[GretschWretch]

My second bass was a 1966 Vox Cougar. And I loved everything about it! Except the dead spots. Sold it for that reason.

I have found that if I lengthen the strap so the bass hangs lower and then angle the bass at 45 to 60 degrees, there is no neck dive. Plus, I keep both wrists straight while playing.

 

[FFTT]

I was gonna say Gibson EB's and SG's dive big time.

Even worse if you have any light weight body with a long scale, high density wood neck.

 

[Blankandson]

I've had both at the same time - perfect balance and huge neck dive. MF sells a really cheap bass ($130-$150 or so) in either a 4- or 5-string. Body is particle board and the neck is real wood. Neck probably has 70% of the weight. Maybe more. Let 'er go and it points to the floor. However, my 1994 Warwick Fortress One 5-string has the strap lock at the 11th fret and it has a really good feel. Hangs just fine either standing or sitting. I can reach the first few frets better standing as opposed to sitting - but it's not a big difference. Biggest issue with the Fortress is finding a good case or gig bag that will hold the long horn. Mystic if you were closer I'd let you use mine and try it out. They are selling pretty cheap these days. ($300 - $500)

 

[zortation]

Not holding the neck up, it is the weight of my Hand and arm coming to rest on the neck causes any bass balanced or not to dive. I am beginning to feel that this may be a more noticeable issue for people whose playing style calls for them to not anchor their right hand or arm on the body of the bass. Slapping and thumb style come to mind. Or, some of the basses such as the Dean above or thunderbird style bodies don't lend themselves an anchor point causing the right hand arm to float

You shouldn't need to anchor anything when playing the bass. Simple test for neck dive: Put the strap on the bass and put the bass on you, hands free...if the neck goes south, guess what? Neck dive.