Hello, I am switching from mixing with headphones to studio monitors. In my price range I have a choice between speakers that can go as low as 80hz or 48hz. I thought I might be missing something in the bass if I pick the 80hz but I don't really know what the difference would be.
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What frequency range do I need for studio monitors?
- Thread starter Gabe7539
- Start date
Depends on your room size but there will not be so much differences unless it's clearly design to work with a sub.
Krk RP is a good serie.
Krk RP is a good serie.
You have to understand the details of specifications in order to make a good choice based on "how low will they go?" The main spec which gives context to frequency range is "XX hertz -n decibels". Virtually all near-field monitors will be down by a number of decibels below 80 hz, and they don't always publish specs in the same clear way.
It's a mistake to expect earth-shaking low freqs from near-field monitors. What you want most is accuracy from say, 80-10000 hz. Your headphones can be used to assess lower frequencies.
It's a mistake to expect earth-shaking low freqs from near-field monitors. What you want most is accuracy from say, 80-10000 hz. Your headphones can be used to assess lower frequencies.
Okay, that's good to know, thanks. I have to limit headphone use because I went for my first ear exam ever and found out that recording guitar with headphones for ~10 years may have left me with some hearing loss in the high frequencies. Hence why I'm switching to speakers.
48Hz is a good bet (but might give you problems with untreated acoustic space). or get the 80Hz ones and get a subwoofer.
80Hz is around low E string on a guitar (not on a bass, on bass that's 40), missing out the bass frequencies may be a pity. I don't personally hear as good if the low end booms in the headphones, on speakers I feel it better.
80Hz is around low E string on a guitar (not on a bass, on bass that's 40), missing out the bass frequencies may be a pity. I don't personally hear as good if the low end booms in the headphones, on speakers I feel it better.
Missing out the bass frequencies isn't a pity, as long as you don't have a very good treated room, esp. with bass absorbers in all corners. In most cases we hear the overtones. Subwoofers and speakers with a huge bass response might mostly cause standing waves and unwanted resonances in non-treated rooms. Esp. if the speakers are placed between 0.8 to 2 meters from the wall behind. They should be placed further away or - if this isn't possible as close to the treated(!) wall as possible.
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oh, it's easy to check. just set up a HPF to 80Hz and see yourself. there's indeed a school of mastering that says: just put the HPF at 80Hz at most things, listeners don't need the frequencies below. my ears disagree with it though.
this all said, I have a monitor set that starts at 50-something-Hz. and I use it for checking if the low end isn't excessively booming in the mix. I'm not able to check this with monitors that start at 70Hz or with my headphones. while there's nothing wrong with listening music on speakers that don't have the low end (most devices that play music don't really have it anyway), but for mastering I want it to be there.
In your TREATED room. In non-treated rooms, it would be nearly not possible to judge the content below say 80 hz in any way, because of the mess the room creates. But there is no question that for a professional mix done in a good room, the bass content is important. Although hard to do this today with people listening on so many different devices.
On a side note: All the classic vinyl albums don't have any content below 80z or even 100hz. I think the first vinyl that had sub-bass content was a disco record from Chic in the late 70s, off cause it was a maxi-single, not a LP. If the groove was too narrow like on LPs with more that 15 minutes music on each side, low bass content could have make the needle jump.
The Limitation's of Vinyl Records
+1
Even in my purpose-built facility with several thousand dollars of acoustic treatments in the control room I still have monitoring issues down around 120hz that I won’t be able to resolve without purchasing a Trinnov or just continuing to rely on Slate VSX for accuracy that low.
“In my price range I have a choice between speakers that can go as low as 80hz or 48hz”.
Try if you can to listen to and directly compare the particular units you are interested in.
Failing that, assiduously study every single user review, take relevant notes and look for consistent repeated points (pros and cons) made by different people on completely different sites.
Additionally, see if there are any You Tube Movies that might afford you further insight, especially any featuring both units, where the differences between them will probably be highlighted and expanded upon.
If the units you are considering are not very expensive, the value of personally listening to them, will in my humble opinion, be vastly increased.
Although manufacturers at such price points may give impressive paper specifications, these are unlikely to tell the whole story or even half of it. Whereas your ears themselves, even ears with issues, may prove to be a more reliable guide than the paper specs alone.
Often it is the case that a manufacturer will present a frequency response say, 20 Hz – 20,000 kHz with a flat line between the two. In reality, pairs of speakers that can achieve such an entirely flat linear response would be so prohibitively expensive to design, manufacture and buy. Such that usually, only Audio Design Labs and Reference Mastering Studios, could possibly afford to purchase them.
In the late 60’s and 70’s a group I played and recorded with went to see Audio Designer Rupert Neve (who sadly passed away recently) about equipment we were thinking of purchasing.
One thing I learnt from him was that although speaker manufacturers make equipment that can on paper encompass such wide frequency responses, it is overwhelming the case that their equipment cannot do so truthfully and reliably in respect to their fidelity. That is, with a truly flat response.
What that means in practice in respect to your question above, is that even if a speaker (on paper) can reproduce such frequencies, what they cannot do usually, (and in particular, in respect to Bass), is to preserve the proper integrity of the phase response of those low frequencies. That is not something most speakers can do well.
If you could see the true graphs regarding the low end phase response of many such speakers, you would be alarmed to see that beyond a certain point, (and much higher than any frequencies you have mentioned), the actual phase response goes askew as the frequencies go lower, and are in truth, absolutely all over the place. Quite wildly so in many instances.
I know Designers of professional audio recording equipment who would argue that for such reasons, the low end frequency response of recordings should be filtered, simply because so few consumer speakers can faithfully reproduce sound, genuinely that low. True full range speakers and speaker systems with subs are expensive and the latter have their own issues involved in set up.
For this reason, do try to actively listen to what you are thinking of buying.
Listen to music of the type you are interested in producing, on those very speakers and you should be able to make up your own mind fairly quickly as to whether you will be satisfied with them.
When listening, bear in mind that you never get a second chance to hear a speaker for the first time. Attend well then, as the first hearing should tell you a lot, and probably the truth, if you have the confidence to properly accept it.
If you listen again and again and again, your ears and brain do adjust their reactions to accommodate sound as they become accustomed to and more accepting of something, you possibly don’t really like. Which is what you may pick up upon, if you are really paying full attention on the first hearing.
That is a huge point, profoundly useful in many areas of decision making, if you can accept it.
“recording guitar with headphones for ~10 years may have left me with some hearing loss in the high frequencies.”
I’m genuinely sorry to hear that, but its worth knowing that some of the best recording engineers themselves have severe hearing loss at specific frequencies.
I think that the unaffected hairs nearby and either side in the inner ear may compensate to some degree over time and that the vast personal experience of such engineers, also acts to help compensate for such problems.
Also, it is the case that it is entirely normal as the years pass for everyone to experience progressive hearing loss, most particularly in the area of high frequencies. Thankfully these are usually in the air regions rather than the acutely sensitive hearing frequencies, requiring great care.
Its also worth knowing that there are many good reasons when monitoring recorded sound (either on headphones or on monitors) to listen at a quite moderate level indeed.
If you don’t have a sound level meter, from experience a good rule of thumb would be that if you were a producer sat in front of a recording console with an engineer; you should be able to talk freely with them back and forth without needing to raise your voice, whilst the music is playing back.
70, 75, 80, 85 decibels at very most is widely considered to be best practice depending on the working regulations and recommendations in different parts of the world. They do vary. Hearing a loud peak of sound is not what damages the delicate hairs within your ears. What causes damage is the average level of sound (contrary as that might seem to common sense) over many, many hours of listening. That is the main stimulus the ear responds to. Therefore, it is the length of time, the number of hours of average exposure, that you should be most mindful of, control and limit.
Now, I have to confess that I know of singular producers who monitor and listen at ridiculously dangerous and harmful levels to the human ear.
They are known for it, seeming exceptions to the rule who may indeed need to listen at such levels, simply because that is the only way they can actually hear at all what is really going on. The resulting damage of years of bad practice.
But I want to give you yet another excellent reason to always listen at moderate sound levels.
It is an almost universal, axiomatic truism, that unless you have professionally designed acoustics in your studio, as you increase the sound level on your recording monitoring system, the Bass response will be enhanced and significantly increased in relation to all the other frequencies.
Simply put, the louder you set your monitors, proportionately, the more Bass their appears to be in the mix.
This might sound great to your ears. However, lowering the monitoring level, the Bass of course, automatically appears reduced in proportion to the rest of the mix.
You will appreciate that if you are mixing sound tracks and attempting to create a recording that will playback excellently over other peoples audio systems, listened to at typical consumer levels; that the Bass which sounded so good to you previously and mixed at that high Bass enhancing level, but now played at a lower overall level, can suddenly appear to lack a lot of Bass energy!
This is because the loud level at which you were monitoring, has increased the prominence of the Bass and given a false impression of the actual balance of the mix. You think you have an ideal level of Bass, but when you and others listen at more typically moderate consumer playback levels, what is found is that the mix, simply hasn’t enough Bass!
The good news is, that it doesn’t work the other way around.
If you record and in particular, specifically mix at a low level as indicated above, (recommended in professional recording situations). As the monitored level of the mix of the tracked recording is reduced, the Bass level of the finished recorded mix, set under such circumstances, is invariably, just fine. Amazingly so!
Furthermore, having mixed and balanced the Bass at the lower levels as indicated above, if you then increase the overall playback level (inevitably increasing the Bass response); because the Bass level was set in proportion to the rest of the recording whilst very carefully listening at a lower, far more moderate level and correctly set under those circumstances.
As one increases the overall playback level, the level of Bass in the mix invariably stays within a wholly acceptable range. Again, its fine! In other words, as the consumer playback level is adjusted upwards or downwards, the level of Bass in proportion to the rest of the mix, remains completely acceptable to the typically average consumer. This is common knowledge at a certain level of expertise.
It doesn’t work the other way round, which is one reason many people venturing into the recording field, often find their finished recording mixes, simply don’t sound the way they thought they did. That is one, big reason why!
Finally, the best speakers to have, are ones you are familiar with the properties of.
You have listened to and used them a great deal, and can predict through long experience, sometimes hard won, through trial and error, exactly how specific adjustments you make in the mix, will ultimately pan out in the finished Mixed Down Recording.
There are some things in life that there are no substitutes for.
Experience is one of them.
Try if you can to listen to and directly compare the particular units you are interested in.
Failing that, assiduously study every single user review, take relevant notes and look for consistent repeated points (pros and cons) made by different people on completely different sites.
Additionally, see if there are any You Tube Movies that might afford you further insight, especially any featuring both units, where the differences between them will probably be highlighted and expanded upon.
If the units you are considering are not very expensive, the value of personally listening to them, will in my humble opinion, be vastly increased.
Although manufacturers at such price points may give impressive paper specifications, these are unlikely to tell the whole story or even half of it. Whereas your ears themselves, even ears with issues, may prove to be a more reliable guide than the paper specs alone.
Often it is the case that a manufacturer will present a frequency response say, 20 Hz – 20,000 kHz with a flat line between the two. In reality, pairs of speakers that can achieve such an entirely flat linear response would be so prohibitively expensive to design, manufacture and buy. Such that usually, only Audio Design Labs and Reference Mastering Studios, could possibly afford to purchase them.
In the late 60’s and 70’s a group I played and recorded with went to see Audio Designer Rupert Neve (who sadly passed away recently) about equipment we were thinking of purchasing.
One thing I learnt from him was that although speaker manufacturers make equipment that can on paper encompass such wide frequency responses, it is overwhelming the case that their equipment cannot do so truthfully and reliably in respect to their fidelity. That is, with a truly flat response.
What that means in practice in respect to your question above, is that even if a speaker (on paper) can reproduce such frequencies, what they cannot do usually, (and in particular, in respect to Bass), is to preserve the proper integrity of the phase response of those low frequencies. That is not something most speakers can do well.
If you could see the true graphs regarding the low end phase response of many such speakers, you would be alarmed to see that beyond a certain point, (and much higher than any frequencies you have mentioned), the actual phase response goes askew as the frequencies go lower, and are in truth, absolutely all over the place. Quite wildly so in many instances.
I know Designers of professional audio recording equipment who would argue that for such reasons, the low end frequency response of recordings should be filtered, simply because so few consumer speakers can faithfully reproduce sound, genuinely that low. True full range speakers and speaker systems with subs are expensive and the latter have their own issues involved in set up.
For this reason, do try to actively listen to what you are thinking of buying.
Listen to music of the type you are interested in producing, on those very speakers and you should be able to make up your own mind fairly quickly as to whether you will be satisfied with them.
When listening, bear in mind that you never get a second chance to hear a speaker for the first time. Attend well then, as the first hearing should tell you a lot, and probably the truth, if you have the confidence to properly accept it.
If you listen again and again and again, your ears and brain do adjust their reactions to accommodate sound as they become accustomed to and more accepting of something, you possibly don’t really like. Which is what you may pick up upon, if you are really paying full attention on the first hearing.
That is a huge point, profoundly useful in many areas of decision making, if you can accept it.
“recording guitar with headphones for ~10 years may have left me with some hearing loss in the high frequencies.”
I’m genuinely sorry to hear that, but its worth knowing that some of the best recording engineers themselves have severe hearing loss at specific frequencies.
I think that the unaffected hairs nearby and either side in the inner ear may compensate to some degree over time and that the vast personal experience of such engineers, also acts to help compensate for such problems.
Also, it is the case that it is entirely normal as the years pass for everyone to experience progressive hearing loss, most particularly in the area of high frequencies. Thankfully these are usually in the air regions rather than the acutely sensitive hearing frequencies, requiring great care.
Its also worth knowing that there are many good reasons when monitoring recorded sound (either on headphones or on monitors) to listen at a quite moderate level indeed.
If you don’t have a sound level meter, from experience a good rule of thumb would be that if you were a producer sat in front of a recording console with an engineer; you should be able to talk freely with them back and forth without needing to raise your voice, whilst the music is playing back.
70, 75, 80, 85 decibels at very most is widely considered to be best practice depending on the working regulations and recommendations in different parts of the world. They do vary. Hearing a loud peak of sound is not what damages the delicate hairs within your ears. What causes damage is the average level of sound (contrary as that might seem to common sense) over many, many hours of listening. That is the main stimulus the ear responds to. Therefore, it is the length of time, the number of hours of average exposure, that you should be most mindful of, control and limit.
Now, I have to confess that I know of singular producers who monitor and listen at ridiculously dangerous and harmful levels to the human ear.
They are known for it, seeming exceptions to the rule who may indeed need to listen at such levels, simply because that is the only way they can actually hear at all what is really going on. The resulting damage of years of bad practice.
But I want to give you yet another excellent reason to always listen at moderate sound levels.
It is an almost universal, axiomatic truism, that unless you have professionally designed acoustics in your studio, as you increase the sound level on your recording monitoring system, the Bass response will be enhanced and significantly increased in relation to all the other frequencies.
Simply put, the louder you set your monitors, proportionately, the more Bass their appears to be in the mix.
This might sound great to your ears. However, lowering the monitoring level, the Bass of course, automatically appears reduced in proportion to the rest of the mix.
You will appreciate that if you are mixing sound tracks and attempting to create a recording that will playback excellently over other peoples audio systems, listened to at typical consumer levels; that the Bass which sounded so good to you previously and mixed at that high Bass enhancing level, but now played at a lower overall level, can suddenly appear to lack a lot of Bass energy!
This is because the loud level at which you were monitoring, has increased the prominence of the Bass and given a false impression of the actual balance of the mix. You think you have an ideal level of Bass, but when you and others listen at more typically moderate consumer playback levels, what is found is that the mix, simply hasn’t enough Bass!
The good news is, that it doesn’t work the other way around.
If you record and in particular, specifically mix at a low level as indicated above, (recommended in professional recording situations). As the monitored level of the mix of the tracked recording is reduced, the Bass level of the finished recorded mix, set under such circumstances, is invariably, just fine. Amazingly so!
Furthermore, having mixed and balanced the Bass at the lower levels as indicated above, if you then increase the overall playback level (inevitably increasing the Bass response); because the Bass level was set in proportion to the rest of the recording whilst very carefully listening at a lower, far more moderate level and correctly set under those circumstances.
As one increases the overall playback level, the level of Bass in the mix invariably stays within a wholly acceptable range. Again, its fine! In other words, as the consumer playback level is adjusted upwards or downwards, the level of Bass in proportion to the rest of the mix, remains completely acceptable to the typically average consumer. This is common knowledge at a certain level of expertise.
It doesn’t work the other way round, which is one reason many people venturing into the recording field, often find their finished recording mixes, simply don’t sound the way they thought they did. That is one, big reason why!
Finally, the best speakers to have, are ones you are familiar with the properties of.
You have listened to and used them a great deal, and can predict through long experience, sometimes hard won, through trial and error, exactly how specific adjustments you make in the mix, will ultimately pan out in the finished Mixed Down Recording.
There are some things in life that there are no substitutes for.
Experience is one of them.
