- Nov 20, 2007
- 90
- 0
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Genz Benz, NS Design, D'addario, Peterson Tuners
Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Double Bass What glue to use?
- Thread starter mattwallace
- Start date
Resorcinol glue is another option; its used in boat building and making plywood.
How the wood pieces fit, clamping pressure, play significant roles too. Add some joinery or fasteners, for extra strength.
How the wood pieces fit, clamping pressure, play significant roles too. Add some joinery or fasteners, for extra strength.
There are several factors to consider. All adhesives have particular applications. How the surfaces mate - are they smooth/clean/tight. What kind of wood is used (oily, close pores). How much set up time do you need etc. Do you need to repair the joint in the future. And clamp pressure is an issue too. Yellow wood glue needs tight/smooth joints. This glue has some creep to it when cured. Epoxy fills gaps so joint tightness is typically not an issue, can bond wood to metal and is impervious to water. Gorilla glue will bond oily woods and metal, the foaming action and clean up can be a pain. I used resorcinal years ago, then is was dry and you added water. It was a pain to use since the consistency changed while you worked with it. Hide glue is preferred by luthiers freshly made is better than the premixed bottle glue. Epoxy is pretty much bomb proof. The wood will fail before the glue joint will when the adhesive matches the application.
- Nov 20, 2007
- 90
- 0
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Genz Benz, NS Design, D'addario, Peterson Tuners
- Nov 20, 2007
- 90
- 0
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Genz Benz, NS Design, D'addario, Peterson Tuners
Sorry...but I've gotta' disagree with this. I've heard all of the claims about how great epoxy is, but the real world continually fails to impress me with any kind of epoxy applications in lutherie with the exception of limited use bonding carbon fiber, which is generally some type of epoxy substrate. In 3 decades of doing repair work, the number one disaster low tech repair I see on an almost weekly basis is epoxy failure. People act like nobody will ever see it and that everything will work out great, but it regularly fails and then leaves you with an almost unusable garbage heap of a mess in whatever area it was used on. No ability to clean it up, the wood pores are compromised, it will not re- bond with new layers, and the list goes on and on and on. I've got a neck block on the workbench as we speak that was completely flooded with the idea that it will last forever and nobody will ever know. Ten years later that whole area of the bass has fallen apart and been destroyed by a hyperactive epoxy zealot and now has to be replaced because you can't work with it.
The only thing worse than using epoxy is listening to people whine about why I refuse to work on instruments that have been messed up from prior epoxy use. I just don't think it is appropriate for use on wooden musical instruments.
What have you got going on that is so bad that properly applied hot hide glue won't fix????
j.
One other thing no one has mentioned--maybe it isn't worth it: if you use clear epoxy (as I did on my first instrument, for the center seam on the belly), it will look black-- the light goes in, and doesn't bounce back, so it appears black.
BTW, I attempted to use epoxy on my first bass center-seam, too, and it failed completely--didn't really bond at all. When I cut off sections of the full- thickness glued seam, I could break them with my hands, and they always broke on the glue line. I may be a slow learner, but at least I learn.
BTW, I attempted to use epoxy on my first bass center-seam, too, and it failed completely--didn't really bond at all. When I cut off sections of the full- thickness glued seam, I could break them with my hands, and they always broke on the glue line. I may be a slow learner, but at least I learn.
In my experience the Aliphatic Resin glue is stronger than the wood. The wood must be clean, you use a thin layer and clamp it.
Sorry...but I've gotta' disagree with this. I've heard all of the claims about how great epoxy is, but the real world continually fails to impress me with any kind of epoxy applications in lutherie with the exception of limited use bonding carbon fiber, which is generally some type of epoxy substrate. In 3 decades of doing repair work, the number one disaster low tech repair I see on an almost weekly basis is epoxy failure. People act like nobody will ever see it and that everything will work out great, but it regularly fails and then leaves you with an almost unusable garbage heap of a mess in whatever area it was used on. No ability to clean it up, the wood pores are compromised, it will not re- bond with new layers, and the list goes on and on and on. I've got a neck block on the workbench as we speak that was completely flooded with the idea that it will last forever and nobody will ever know. Ten years later that whole area of the bass has fallen apart and been destroyed by a hyperactive epoxy zealot and now has to be replaced because you can't work with it.
The only thing worse than using epoxy is listening to people whine about why I refuse to work on instruments that have been messed up from prior epoxy use. I just don't think it is appropriate for use on wooden musical instruments.
What have you got going on that is so bad that properly applied hot hide glue won't fix????
j.
Do yourself a favour and listen to this guy.
eerbrev
Sorry...but I've gotta' disagree with this. I've heard all of the claims about how great epoxy is, but the real world continually fails to impress me with any kind of epoxy applications in lutherie with the exception of limited use bonding carbon fiber, which is generally some type of epoxy substrate. In 3 decades of doing repair work, the number one disaster low tech repair I see on an almost weekly basis is epoxy failure. People act like nobody will ever see it and that everything will work out great, but it regularly fails and then leaves you with an almost unusable garbage heap of a mess in whatever area it was used on. No ability to clean it up, the wood pores are compromised, it will not re- bond with new layers, and the list goes on and on and on. I've got a neck block on the workbench as we speak that was completely flooded with the idea that it will last forever and nobody will ever know. Ten years later that whole area of the bass has fallen apart and been destroyed by a hyperactive epoxy zealot and now has to be replaced because you can't work with it.
The only thing worse than using epoxy is listening to people whine about why I refuse to work on instruments that have been messed up from prior epoxy use. I just don't think it is appropriate for use on wooden musical instruments.
What have you got going on that is so bad that properly applied hot hide glue won't fix????
j.
The OP asked a vague, general question about glue, not application for luthier etc. that is why I mentioned epoxy and other adhesives. If the OP mentioned glue for xxx then I would have responded with specific recommendations that is why my post asked more questions than answered the OP. Epoxy is amazing when used appropriately - boats, planes, cars, even carbon fiber instruments are made with epoxy. All depends on application
I'm not trying to start any wars around here. This is an instrument repair specific forum on an instrument specific website, so instrument application seemed the likely candidate. I don't think he was asking about carbon fiber boats or tennis rackets.
One aspect of different glues I`d like to learn more about is how the joint re-acts to changes in humidity. Does hide glue (being water soluble), build up less stress as the wood fibers expand and contract? Do the so-called "stronger" glues cause damage to fibers because the joint is impervious to water? Also if clamping is an issue hide glues are the only ones I know of capable of making a "rub" joint that needs no clamp at all....
- Nov 20, 2007
- 90
- 0
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Genz Benz, NS Design, D'addario, Peterson Tuners
the use was for a very cheap jr guitar for my 3 year old. it was mine when i was little and is coming apart. it isn't worth any $$$ just wanted to fix it cheap, fast, and it last for a LONG time.
Titebond. That is very likely what it was originally made with. My youngest builds guitars, and that is what they use today.
Completely off topic here, but it amazes me that simple Titebond (which I love, by the way) is used on very expensive archtop guitars. I'm talking about $40,000 guitars here. How do they deal with it when stuff goes wrong inside?
I have Robert Benedetto's book and he uses Titebond for just about every wooden part.
George
rjspear
Commercial User
- Apr 23, 2011
- 97
- 4
- Disclosures
- Luthier, owner Singing Woods Violin Shop
A cheap. fast fix can be had with commonly available aliphatic resin (yellow carpenter's) glue. Hello, hardware store! It is very strong and will be a better choice if the mating surfaces are not precisely matched. It's also waterproof, so you'd better get it where you want it the first time.
There are solvents on the market for any glue, but once the glue is in the joint you'd likely have to saw the pieces apart. For an electric guitar for a young child, my guess is that the child will lose interest in it (or he'll be wanting a better one) long before any glue you choose would fail.
It is very strong and will be a better choice if the mating surfaces are not precisely matched. It's also waterproof, so you'd better get it where you want it the first time.There are solvents on the market for any glue, but once the glue is in the joint you'd likely have to saw the pieces apart. For an electric guitar for a young child, my guess is that the child will lose interest in it (or he'll be wanting a better one) long before any glue you choose would fail.
