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What is 'cheating' in recording a demo?

#21
it depends on what you mean by "demo," in my opinion there are three types of "demos."

1. A CD you give to a bar owner/booking agent to demonstrate your live show
2. An early incomplete version of tracks you intend to record later used as a rough guide for the "real" recording process
3. A bad album

If it's #1, then I would say whatever YOU feel comfortable with is OK
If it's #2, there is no such thing as "cheating"
If it's #3, welcome to the other 90% of what people call "demos." I'll be honest, I've produced a few of these myself. In this case where you are recording an album, but calling it a demo so if it sucks you have an excuse: I honestly don't feel there is much that could be considered cheating. To me the difference between an album and a live show is the musical equivalent to the difference between a sculpture and a painting done by the same artist on the same subject. You can see the similarities and how they intertwine, but they aren't the same medium and should not be treated as such. They each require a different (but overlapping) set of skills.
 
#22
trunkshope6 said:
dude there is no cheating,no matter what recording takes work patience ,and the willingness to stop smoking weed for an hour or two,cuz that just screws stuff up hahah jk
Click to expand...

i always thought it was the willingness to smoke weed straight for an hour or two, so you can sit in a windowless room for 8-12.
anyway, i'm with the folks that say listen to your gut.
just don't judge how others do it.
 
#24
OK, let me clarify, what I mean by "demo" in this case is an example of my playing. It's something to put on a web page, so that when I respond to a craigslist ad looking for a bass player to sub on a gig, I can send the link and say "here, check out my playing." The purpose is to get gigs, or at least auditions.

So that's where the dilemma comes in. On the one hand, the recording better not have any mistakes, because people will assume that's the best I can do. How lame is a player who leaves mistakes on his demo? OTOH, if I had to record 20 takes to get the perfect one, does that really represent how well I play? I am putting some live recordings on the page, so maybe the "studio" recordings can be a little more "polished", since I at least composed the parts.

I agree that if the recording is "art", it's OK to do anything you want.
 
#25
Jim Nazium said:
OK, let me clarify, what I mean by "demo" in this case is an example of my playing. It's something to put on a web page, so that when I respond to a craigslist ad looking for a bass player to sub on a gig, I can send the link and say "here, check out my playing." The purpose is to get gigs, or at least auditions.

So that's where the dilemma comes in. On the one hand, the recording better not have any mistakes, because people will assume that's the best I can do. How lame is a player who leaves mistakes on his demo? OTOH, if I had to record 20 takes to get the perfect one, does that really represent how well I play? I am putting some live recordings on the page, so maybe the "studio" recordings can be a little more "polished", since I at least composed the parts.

I agree that if the recording is "art", it's OK to do anything you want.
Click to expand...

It's "cheating" if someone hears your recordings, thinks you sound good for their gig and you show up and cannot live up to what your recordings presented.

I stand by my first comment - you're only cheating yourself (and possibly the person who sets aside time to discover that you cheated yourself).

Can you live up to the representative sample or is the representative sample better that what you can do?
 
#26
Depends on what you are demoing. If it is your live playing, then a studio crafted piece is not appropriate. If you are demoing your production chops, glossy and perfect is fine. It all depends on how you represent it. If you say "I can do this", you'd better be able to back it up, whether it's a live piece or a studio creation. "Yes, I can stand on stage and play this" or "Give me a week in my studio and I can do that".
 
#27
tZer said:
It's "cheating" if someone hears your recordings, thinks you sound good for their gig and you show up and cannot live up to what your recordings presented.

I stand by my first comment - you're only cheating yourself (and possibly the person who sets aside time to discover that you cheated yourself).

Can you live up to the representative sample or is the representative sample better that what you can do?
Click to expand...

I think that's a good answer. They're going to find out how well I can play at the gig (or audition), so there's no point in misrepresenting myself. But I want to present myself as favorably as possible, while still being honest.
 
#29
If you put your name on it, yet you use another person to do the actual playing, then that is cheating. If you make a demo that you cant reproduce live, re-think the complexities of the material you've recorded and simplify. Either way, it's your recording of you.
 
#30
Jim Nazium said:
I think that's a good answer. They're going to find out how well I can play at the gig (or audition), so there's no point in misrepresenting myself. But I want to present myself as favorably as possible, while still being honest.
Click to expand...

That comes down to delivering the goods - both on your demo and in the audition.

I'd recommend working on your demo piece until you've got it down cold, then record it.

It sounds to me like you've got a piece or two you feel are what you want to use to represent yourself but when you recorded them, you discovered spots you still need to work on.

Believe me - if you know the parts, getting them down relatively error free is not that big a deal. If you are consistently making mistakes that you feel require punch-ins or re-dos, that's a good sign that you don't have the parts down yet.

That said, if you do have the parts down really well and it comes down to fixing a minor flub here and there, then I think you're ok to do so with punch-in's and feel good about the demo.

Everyone makes a teeny mistake here or there and that doesn't mean they didn't know the part - that's just 'stuff happens' - but if you're missing the take time and again, hit the woodshed or take five and come back fresh and better rehearsed.
 
#31
DeluxeRed said:
Depends on what you are demoing. If it is your live playing, then a studio crafted piece is not appropriate. If you are demoing your production chops, glossy and perfect is fine. It all depends on how you represent it. If you say "I can do this", you'd better be able to back it up, whether it's a live piece or a studio creation. "Yes, I can stand on stage and play this" or "Give me a week in my studio and I can do that".
Click to expand...
+1

As for a producing a "fixed" demo for live giging... What if a guitarist sent you a "fixed" demo then shows up to gig but couldn't play what was in the demo?
 
#33
Just divide it into sections and play each section over and over until its 100% perfect and then do the next one..
Every single album is done that way anyway..

But since the purpose of said demo is to demostrate how well you can play, I'd say record the way i said but record something you can actually play 99% perfect live..
 
#34
As it has been said, cheating is only if you're doing something that you're not willing to learn in order to showcase a false talent. I'm more of the school that if you can't replicate it live it doesn't get recorded either, but eh, I'm pretty black and white on this kind of stuff.

I've lost track of the number of times I had an idea and had to get better to be able to play it. It's a good thing to have, and I hope I never lose that ability.
 
#35
I just sent a demo audition for an excruciatingly difficult tune.
It's clocking at 170 and riddled with 16th notes and 1st position finger
twisters. I thought about cheating but I finally nailed it with very few flaws after 3 weeks of practicing it at a slower tempo and nailing down sections. The advancement you make as a player by doing the work is worth it. EVen if you don't get the gig you are much more ready for the next one which is really how it should be. You should be twice as good as the most difficult thing you expect to play live. That way when you push the envelope you are just killing it.:bassist:
 
#36
FOR THE OP.


Since your making this for your own personal advertisement.

I reccomend a mix of things.
at least one track where you've "played with the layers" (cheated) so that they can see that you understand that process, and they can recognise that skillset.

at least one solo bass track. nothing else except maybe a drum machine set on a simple groove.

and two or three tracks showng how you are with other bands. preferably of differnt styles. or at least different takes on the same style.

don't over load it, but show em what you can do.
 

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