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What is "Playing in the Pocket"?

#21
Playing in the pocket.

Your "job" as a bass player is to give a note to the bass drum. Whenever he hits, you hit, perferably with a note that helps propel the song in a direction melodically. (can also hold the song "in check" if that's what's necessary.

"Pocket" is not on the beat nor is it behind. Pocket is the beat. Play a Marvin Gaye tune and the pocket is far different than say the Beatles, or bebop Jazz. Yet, all these styles have a "pocket".

Again, as told to me by Ray Charles bassisst, a guy we all called Luscious, when I worked on Bourbon Street. "Pocket" is making sure when the bass drum hits, you give it a tone or note. Anything you can play between that is fine as long as it doesn't interfere with the Bass drum.

Look at it this way, if a song was a human body, Pocket would be the "Heartbeat". You wouldn't want your heart to start doing off rhythm things with your breathing? Just wouldn't feel right.
So it is with the pocket. They have to work together and often share the same space and time.

A very groovaliscious cat's opinion,
Who I happen to totally agree with, because he could sure play pocket.

Hope it helps,
Tummage


;)
 
#22
Originally posted by tummage
Playing in the pocket.

Your "job" as a bass player is to give a note to the bass drum. Whenever he hits, you hit, perferably with a note that helps propel the song in a direction melodically. (can also hold the song "in check" if that's what's necessary.
Click to expand...

I think this is a very limited and limiting point of view - a lot of music doesn't have bass drum laying down a repetitive beat and certainly grooves.

So for example, Jazz or Afro Cuban music can really groove and there aren't many better bassists than the best in these genres. But you would be waiting a long time for a bass drum beat!

You have to be able to play in the pocket and not rely on the most obvious clues from the drummer, as they may never come! I personally find music where the drummer is laying down a very square bass drum beat, pretty boring and even more so if the bass player is just hitting the same beat in the bar, - give me some rhythmic subtelty every time!
 
#24
There are as many explanations for this as there are players. Here's mine.

Pocket - The basic foundation of the music that allows other musicians to trust the time. Made up of time, feel, energy. Usually created by bass and drums.

Groove - The type of "feel" that you play with as a person or collectively as a group. Made up of how the individual player or group interacts with the pocket.

Pocket - tight or loose.

Groove - happening or not.

A good groove can't happen with out a tight pocket. However, a tight pocket won't always yield a happening groove.
 
#26
Listen to how Rocco Prestia plays with David Garibaldi: that is groove/in the pocket playing.

Groove/playing in the pocket is not generally something that can be taught. Probably the best way to get better at this would be to listen, a lot, to good drummer/bassist combos that can do it well AND play with a drummer as often as possible and try to emulate what you hear the good groove/pocket players doing. Listen to how you sound playing the same thing they are, does it feel good? Does it sound the same as when they do it; and I don't just mean the correct notes. Playing along with the CD is another good way to practice this.

I'm reminded of a Red Hot Chili Peppers song every time I see a thread/question about this: "If you have to ask, you'll never know..." :D
 
#27
Originally posted by Bruce Lindfield


I think this is a very limited and limiting point of view - a lot of music doesn't have bass drum laying down a repetitive beat and certainly grooves.

So for example, Jazz or Afro Cuban music can really groove and there aren't many better bassists than the best in these genres. But you would be waiting a long time for a bass drum beat!

You have to be able to play in the pocket and not rely on the most obvious clues from the drummer, as they may never come! I personally find music where the drummer is laying down a very square bass drum beat, pretty boring and even more so if the bass player is just hitting the same beat in the bar, - give me some rhythmic subtelty every time!
Click to expand...

I just played a gig on mondy where the drummer didnt bring his kick drum. 1st time Ive ever had to do that. IMO it made playing in the pocket a bit more difficult and really challenged me as a bassist. But even though a bit difficult the music still grooved a bit and had a pocket. So I can definatly relate to you on this one. Even though I hated the gig, I learned alot from it.
 
#28
The other day I was at rehearsal, and one of the guys played a song for us to hear, that he wanted us to cover. It was a funk tune, and the guitarist commented, "Man, that's all about the bass and drums locking!"

I hate that.

I also hate when people talk about playing in the pocket.

I play bass. I'm a rhythm section player. Everything I play will groove. I'm not a bassist who plays a lead or melody line. I'm a rhythm section bassist. Don't talk to me about this or that song "having to lock in with the drummer." That's all I ever think about. Every song I play locks with the drummer. Whether it's a jazz balad, merengue, funk tune, or rock piece.

In my opinion, "playing in the pocket" and "locking with the drummer," (as terms, not concepts), are overrated. Everything I do is about groove and pocket.
 
#29
Originally posted by jazzbo
The other day I was at rehearsal, and one of the guys played a song for us to hear, that he wanted us to cover. It was a funk tune, and the guitarist commented, "Man, that's all about the bass and drums locking!"

I hate that.

I also hate when people talk about playing in the pocket.

I play bass. I'm a rhythm section player. Everything I play will groove. I'm not a bassist who plays a lead or melody line. I'm a rhythm section bassist. Don't talk to me about this or that song "having to lock in with the drummer." That's all I ever think about. Every song I play locks with the drummer. Whether it's a jazz balad, merengue, funk tune, or rock piece.

In my opinion, "playing in the pocket" and "locking with the drummer," (as terms, not concepts), are overrated. Everything I do is about groove and pocket.
Click to expand...


I agree with jazzbo, most of the time I find that people who talk about it alot, don't necessarily do it alot.


Chris A.:rolleyes:
 
#30
Originally posted by tummage
Playing in the pocket.

Your "job" as a bass player is to give a note to the bass drum. Whenever he hits, you hit, perferably with a note that helps propel the song in a direction melodically. (can also hold the song "in check" if that's what's necessary.

Bruce,
If you read a little further down you'll see:

"Pocket" is not on the beat nor is it behind. Pocket is the beat. Play a Marvin Gaye tune and the pocket is far different than say the Beatles, or bebop Jazz. Yet, all these styles have a "pocket".

I apologize for the generalization. I thought the above qoute about different styles covered non-drum, Jazz and other styles.

Further, I did put "job" in quotes trying to convey the loose generalization. Guess I failed, Huh?

Yes, there can be pocket when pocket exist, but the fellow asking the original question obviously didn't know how to define pocket in any style, and I thoughtimmersing him in avant garde or more complicated styles would be an exercise in futility. So, I picked a generalization, and an easy one, or so I thought, for him to try and define a pocket for himself, trusting that once he had grasped the concept, he could figure out more complicated forms for himself. I in no way meant to imply that mine was the only answer, I was just giving him the analogy which has helped countless numbers of my students to grasp this rather undefinable, state.

Thanks for checking me, I will attempt to be more thourough with my postings.

Consider me thoroughly flogged with wet noodles.

Tummage
 
#31
Originally posted by tummage
Originally posted by tummage
Playing in the pocket.

Your "job" as a bass player is to give a note to the bass drum. Whenever he hits, you hit, perferably with a note that helps propel the song in a direction melodically. (can also hold the song "in check" if that's what's necessary.
Click to expand...

Thats not entirly true. it is quite possible to play againt or off the kick drum and still propell the song and still be in the pocket.
 
#33
I first heard the pocket expession playing in a funk band in college. Some of my fellow musicians complained that our drummer wouldn't play in the pocket. Basically, he played lots of embellishing notes and fills, but the strong notes on the important beats were missing or inconsistent.

We kicked him out of the band and got a new drummer who was great. He could play the fills like the last guy, but the important difference was that he was solid on the beat, which kept the song moving. For most music, that's what keeps people's feet tapping-- there's a steady pulse when they expect it. And when there is a change in rhythm, the whole band is together on it and it doesn't sound like a mistake.

--Frank
 
#34
Aah, playing in the pocket. I did a lot of that under the desk at school in maths ;)

I always assumed it meant playing a really tight groove, in particular with the drummer.

Best example I can think of right now is Headhunters.

I first heard the pocket expession playing in a funk band in college. Some of my fellow musicians complained that our drummer wouldn't play in the pocket. Basically, he played lots of embellishing notes and fills, but the strong notes on the important beats were missing or inconsistent.
Click to expand...

Interesting, the drummer in one of may bands is like that. It REALLY pisses me off... but we're all good mates and it's nothing serious so it's not worth the hassle complaining or giving him the boot!
 
#36
Originally posted by iplaybass


Listen to him. Chances are he's been playing since I was running in front of cars in diapers. But for argument's sake, if you have a twenty minute slap solo that is in the pocket, I'd sure like to hear it.:D
Click to expand...

While not 20 minutes, check out some of Juan Nelson's live solos with Ben Harper.

Swingbass' Willie Weeks example is perfect for a straight up pocket solo.
 
#37
Originally posted by cassanova


Thats not entirly true. it is quite possible to play againt or off the kick drum and still propell the song and still be in the pocket.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. The idea is the tight interplay in the rhythym section.

Check out James Brown's "Sex Machine"... a teenaged Bootsy works a loose bassline while the rhythym guitar does a syncopated stroke and the drums are locked into their thing.

Check out most of AWB's catalog. They took the James Brown model and put their own stamp on it.
 
#39
Originally posted by Pacman


As expected, I'm going to disagree :D

You certainly can play a 20 minute slap solo "in the pocket". In the pocket means grooving - generally means grooving hard. Which is why it's generally confused with not playing much, because playing a lot and setting up a great pocket is difficult, and so few bassists do it well.
Click to expand...

Thank You pacman. I didnt want to reply to that post with anything off key to Iplaybass frum Tinnassey.To play in the pocket is to be solid with your drummer like you were one, (tight) and that's what makes a good band.

Joke: What do you call the 1st two rows of a Willie Nelson concert?



Answer: A full set of teeth

Sorry Willie :eek:
 

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