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What I've discovered about flats......

#22
I too prefer flats.
One good by-product of flats: none of that zingy finger slide on rounds sound that is so irritating.
The other item I think is muddying the waters - what's it called, frequency masking ? When I'm playing up the neck with rounds I sound like a guitar , and that's what guitar players are for - it muddies the sonic waters in the room to play like that.
I keep it low and stay out of their way.
Now, I think some folks like rounds because it gives the note a good bite particularly as it begins - I think an ebony fb helps with that.
 
#23
I paid $40 for as set of flats when I was a wee bassist of several months because my MIM P Deluxe didn't give me what I wanted. I cut them off and cut them apart after 5 minutes of playing, utterly pissed off at the horrible tone they gave me through my Fender Rumble 15. (8" speaker and 15w RMS, haha. From my Squier starter pack!)

Now, I put a set of Roto 77 on my P on a whim of being bored with it's overly bright Roto 66 tone (I love it and hate it at once.) It has all the balls that I wish it did. Thumpy with fingers and beefy when picked. It also seems to pair better with my VT Bass and put out the tones I want with less of a fight.

Of note: that Rumble combo is still around 6 years later, about 3 feet to my right. I sound a lot better now and am a hella lot better at getting those tones from my head, from the CD's, or that the band is begging me to use out through my hands. All with me flats. :D
 
#24
Basshappi said:
The more things change........

Back in the day, when I was a baby bassplayer and the great mammoths strode the ice-covered plains, I and every other bassplayer I came in contact with or read about (there were no personal computers much less the internet in those days of yore) hated flats and were abandoning them in droves.

Rotosounds were like the great monolith in 2001: A Space Odessey and we were the yammering ape-men lured to and enlightened by the mystical and mesmerizing "roundwound sound". Guitarists and soundmen across the land cowered in fear of our new and mighty presence in the mix!

But slowly and stealthily, seething up from the stygian darkness like some thrice-cursed and diabolical cult of the Elder gods whom men, blinded by the starry glitter of their safe and comfortable modern world believed to have perished from the earth in aeons-haunted antiquity, crept Flatwounds. Aided by the foul works of their zealous and bestial servants they have begun to corrupt once more the hearts of men!
Click to expand...

TL;DR.

P.S. What?
 
#26
sloasdaylight said:
TL;DR.

P.S. What?
Click to expand...

what he's saying is that once upon a time everyone used flats. then john entwhistle and a few others come along and bust out the round wound. then round wound fever takes over and everyone abandons the flats like they're yesterday's garbage. .. and finally now slowly but surely people are starting to go back to flats. you find more and more bassists using flats, if this forum is any judge, and i think it is (check how many threads have been made about flat wounds in the last 6 months... it's probably over a hundred.
 
#28
rumblefish said:
You see, with flats you come up from below with a thick undercurrent of bass, an 18 inch slab-of-granite foundation for your band to launch from.
It took 35 years and a cetain level of maturity for me to realize this and it became apparent that I had to back away from the zingy in your face sound of rounds and offer to my band true bottom.
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+1
Well put!

Groove is something you feel, not necessarily what you hear.
 
#29
After recently joining a R&B motown band i have switched back to flats on my J-bass,
it gives me that tone like chocolate goodness oozing from the speakers.
Before that, playing mostly rock and some funk, the rounds worked quite well for that extra zing that cuts through the mix.
You just need to figure where you want to be in the music,and what really suits the band
your playing with.
 
#30
mr.redpants said:
The other item I think is muddying the waters - what's it called, frequency masking ?
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Actually, frequency masking is a corollary of the Fletcher Munson curve and the related field of psychoacoustics. It is the tendency of lower frequencies on the audible spectrum to mask those slightly higher in pitch than said frequency when boosted. The reverse is true, cut bass, and the higher freqs sound boosted.

That being said, can anyone prove with a plot or analysis of some kind that flats have a stronger fundamental or more solid low end? Or is it mereley the attenuation of the treble that makes our ears perceive more low end?

Seriously, I'm not being snarky here--I really want to know!:p
 
#32
rumblefish said:
A power trio is fine for bassists who use roundwounds.
Any more musicians in the band and the need for flats is
greatly needed.
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I attended a 3 week long class given by the band Oregon back in the late '70s when I was mostly playing drums. The most useful lesson I got out of it was that the more members there are in a band setting, the simpler everyone needs to play. It still works, and it still needs to get hammered into other player's brains occasionally.

You could argue that when you need to play with less, each note that you play might actually be tonally more interesting if you use rounds, but with a trio, you need to fill space, and with more going on you need to back off and let the others fill up the space. Whether you accomplish that with flats, rounds, or even those goofy ashbory rubber thingys, it don't really matter.....
 
#35
Mr. Pickles said:
Actually, frequency masking is a corollary of the Fletcher Munson curve and the related field of psychoacoustics. It is the tendency of lower frequencies on the audible spectrum to mask those slightly higher in pitch than said frequency when boosted. The reverse is true, cut bass, and the higher freqs sound boosted...
Click to expand...

Hey, none of that science geek stuff here! Just kidding. I find this kind of stuff interesting, and it's good to hear the science behind what I hear with my ears in these kinds of situations.

Craig_S said:
I'll second that. String choice doesn't make your feel any different.
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I kinda' sorta; disagree. ;) For me anyway, I play differently with flats than I do with rounds. I think I play better, in fact, because I'm more comfortable with flats. It's in the same way that I play better with a bass that's comfortable and set up the way I like it.
 
#36
rumblefish said:
A power trio is fine for bassists who use roundwounds.
Click to expand...

Actually, I was in a trio in 1969 called Speed Limited, running flats on my P bass. Rounds had been invented, but I hadn't heard about them. I'm not sure if Noel Redding used flats with Hendrix or Mel Schacher with Grand Funk, but it sounds likely. I think John Paul Jones used flats with Zep and Jack Bruce did with Cream. Dee Murray used flats with EJ.
 
#37
IMO the difference is 99% about the percussive nature of the flats vs rounds, not anything else. For my purposes it is MUCH easier to get a kick in the gut percussive punch (with the right sound reinforcement of course) with flatwounds. Both support the band and EQ can help some, but you will NOT get the same sledgehammer attack with rounds that you will with flats...unless you run through all kinds of effects ala Tim Commerford.
 

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