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What position should ground switch be in?

#41
mr80htz said:
Thanks folks. It's a '71 Traynor and has had a 3 prong outlet installed on the chord. Don't know if the ground switch has been disconnected internally. I was just wondering which position the switch should be in
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It seem this, your real question, is still unanswered. With a grounded cord, they may, (should) have left in the capacitor - so that if you use a cheater IMG_0928.JPG into an old 2 blade outlet, you still have the feature. • So - the answer - to the real question - is - It does not matter. If plugged to a grounded outlet, the capacitor is shorted out, so is irrelevant. Only matters if not grounded.
 
#42
Perry Wright said:
It seem this, your real question, is still unanswered. With a grounded cord, they may, (should) have left in the capacitor - so that if you use a cheater View attachment 3308481 into an old 2 blade outlet, you still have the feature. • So - the answer - to the real question - is - It does not matter. If plugged to a grounded outlet, the capacitor is shorted out, so is irrelevant. Only matters if not grounded.
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The cap is never shorted out. That would connect raw AC power to the chassis. As for ungrounded receptacles I haven’t seen one in at least forty years here in Canada where the amp was made.
 
#43
So after all those awesome comments this is what I want to ask now:
Q: Is it normal to get a shock if a 3 prong receptacle has been attached? (Only when the ground switch is down, it's fine when flipped up). The outlet and power bar being used are fine.
 
#45
Should have said to begin with, "Has a grounded cord and still gives a shock one way and not the other."

For goodness sake, open the poor thing up and see if the green wire from the power cord is connected to the chassis. If not, then whoever put it on just did it for looks.

  • As far as arguing about shorting the ground capacitor: If the chassis is grounded through the power cord, and the ground switch (and capacitor) are flipped to the neutral side, then it is hooked to ground, since ground and neutral are the same thing, the little capacitor is literally shorted. If the switch is flipped the other way, the cap is shunted from the hot to ground, so is directly across the AC line, giving a tiny bit of filtering. Shunted, shorted, don't be so argumentative.

And I frequently find bars and small town public halls with old 2 blade outlets on the stage. I always have some cheaters in my gig box.
 
#46
Perry Wright said:
Should have said to begin with, "Has a grounded cord and still gives a shock one way and not the other."

For goodness sake, open the poor thing up and see if the green wire from the power cord is connected to the chassis. If not, then whoever put it on just did it for looks.

  • As far as arguing about shorting the ground capacitor: If the chassis is grounded through the power cord, and the ground switch (and capacitor) are flipped to the neutral side, then it is hooked to ground, since ground and neutral are the same thing, the little capacitor is literally shorted. If the switch is flipped the other way, the cap is shunted from the hot to ground, so is directly across the AC line, giving a tiny bit of filtering. Shunted, shorted, don't be so argumentative.

And I frequently find bars and small town public halls with old 2 blade outlets on the stage. I always have some cheaters in my gig box.
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If the modified amp with a 3 conductor line cord is plugged into a GFI receptacle or a circuit with a GFI breaker, it'll trip the GFI and kill the circuit should the chassis cap be switched to the hot side of the line. It's best to remove the cap altogether if a 3 wire cord is used.

If the chassis ground is floating because of someone using a ground lift cheater plug, the musician inevitably becomes the shunt to ground.
 
#47
I had a YB1

It had a 3 prong cord
But the ground switch was still functional.

Meaning the plug was replaced, but the ground third leg wasn't connected.

This is probably causing the confusion. Meaning yes you'll still get shocked if the switch is at one of the polaritys.

It's still operating like it has a 2 prong cord. Which is actually just fine that's how it was factory.

Since your plug was replaced with 3 prong. You'll always plug it in the same polarity. So the current position you set the ground switch in and not get shocked is fine for any standard outlet.


I was gonna make the joke.

If you go for backup vocals and the mic nails you. Lol....switch the ground
 
#48
BogeyBass said:
I had a YB1

It had a 3 prong cord
But the ground switch was still functional.

Meaning the plug was replaced, but the ground third leg wasn't connected.

This is probably causing the confusion. Meaning yes you'll still get shocked if the switch is at one of the polaritys.

It's still operating like it has a 2 prong cord. Which is actually just fine that's how it was factory.

Since your plug was replaced with 3 prong. You'll always plug it in the same polarity. So the current position you set the ground switch in and not get shocked is fine for any standard outlet.


I was gonna make the joke.

If you go for backup vocals and the mic nails you. Lol....switch the ground
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So basically if I leave the switch up where it didn't shock me I'm perfectly cool to play it and will not die? Some sweet description dude. I got it all and know nothing about this topic. My 3 pronger totally doesn't have the green wire grounded to the amp. I guess it doesn't matter as long as the ground switch is up. Merci
 
#50
Yes pretty much. Good to roll.

As you know modern 2 prongs have a fatty and a small one. This would keep the chord from getting flipped.

Older 2 prongs could be plugged in either way. So it was a 50/50 chance lol.Everytime you plugged it in. If you had to flip the ground switch or not.

Basically it's purdy simple. Ground gets tied to the neutral buss in house wiring.

So now even though technically you still have a 2 prong circuit.

That third ground leg on your plug will always make you plug in same polarity.

And since you found the neutral side with your ground switch. Yee hah rock n roll
 
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#51
mr80htz said:
So basically if I leave the switch up where it didn't shock me I'm perfectly cool to play it and will not die? Some sweet description dude. I got it all and know nothing about this topic. My 3 pronger totally doesn't have the green wire grounded to the amp. I guess it doesn't matter as long as the ground switch is up. Merci
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Congratulations, you are now a Darwin Award finalist.

You “guess it doesn’t matter” while my education, training and a career full of experience all know that it matters. You, like so many, may very well get away with that for years. If you want to take that risk, far be it from me to stop you. (Refer to my congrats line above.)

BogeyBass said:
Yes pretty much. Good to roll.

As you know modern 2 prongs have a fatty and a small one. This would keep the chord from getting flipped.

Older 2 prongs could be plugged in either way. So it was a 50/50 chance lol.Everytime you plugged it in. If you had to flip the ground switch or not.

Basically it's purdy simple. Ground gets tied to the neutral buss in house wiring.

So now even though technically you still have a 2 prong circuit.

That third ground leg on your plug will always make you plug in same polarity.

And since you found the neutral side with your ground switch. Yee hah rock n roll
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“Good to roll.” No, not at all. You demonstrate that it’s easier to suggest solutions when you don’t know much about the problem. Refer, please, to Underwriters Laboratories standards for Consumer Electronics Product Safety Testing and Validation and to the National Electrical Code Article 250 Grounding and Bonding.

Pournelle’s Law - If you don’t know what you’re doing, deal with those who do.
 
#52
All good man

So if he did have a magical 3 prong cord

And the outlets were wired incorrectly. Like they often are...then what does that green wire do for you.

What if the ground isn't even connected

If you wanna freak out over 2 prong amps like most do...go ahead

I have a better idea let's all freak out and argue over 5 or 11 pages.

I know let's all imagine that a metal chassis connected to electricity is totally safe lol.

Anyways ...I kinda miss my YB1A
 
#53
StatesideRambler said:
Congratulations, you are now a Darwin Award finalist.

You “guess it doesn’t matter” while my education, training and a career full of experience all know that it matters. You, like so many, may very well get away with that for years. If you want to take that risk, far be it from me to stop you. (Refer to my congrats line above.)


“Good to roll.” No, not at all. You demonstrate that it’s easier to suggest solutions when you don’t know much about the problem. Refer, please, to Underwriters Laboratories standards for Consumer Electronics Product Safety Testing and Validation and to the National Electrical Code Article 250 Grounding and Bonding.

Pournelle’s Law - If you don’t know what you’re doing, deal with those who do.
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Congratulations to you too! You're an A$$hole :)
 
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#55
I'm not sure what the argument is about.

The old 2 conductor system with a capacitor switch arrangement can deliver a significant shock, and potentially even death under the right conditions. There is a reason they don't manufacture amps like this anymore. Cheater plugs don't help the safety situation in any way. Any amp wired like this should be retrofit with a 3 wire power cord, 3 wire connector, and the safety ground properly connected to the amp chassis. The .05mfd cap should be removed.

There is also a reason why there are strict electrical codes dealing with safety grounding. It's to prevent people from getting killed through accident, ignorance or idiocy.
 
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#56
byacey said:
I'm not sure what the argument is about.

The old 2 conductor system with a capacitor switch arrangement can deliver a significant shock, and potentially even death under the right conditions. There is a reason they don't manufacture amps like this anymore. Cheater plugs don't help the safety situation in any way. Any amp wired like this should be retrofit with a 3 wire power cord, 3 wire connector, and the safety ground properly connected to the amp chassis. The .05mfd cap should be removed.

There is also a reason why there are strict electrical codes dealing with safety grounding. It's to prevent people from getting killed through accident, ignorance or idiocy.
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This.

But if you absolutely hafta use a two-prong outlet witha three-prong cord (note the spelling please, "C-O-R-D"), well, doya see the little eye on the cheater? You can run a wire from that to ground, what may be better than nothing ...
 
#58
I find it interesting that so many older amp had this issue and how many people died? If it were really that intense then it would be more heard of in the music world. I grew up with old amps as my dad is a pro musician and never heard of this level of severity. Even in my own pro experiences over 20 years I have not heard of enough people dying from these shocks to be common knowledge. People get shocks when dealing with faulty electronic devices...get that for sure, but the level of worry on this forum of it causing death seems a bit odd to me. If I were to get a shock playing in a place where there's a lot of electricity being used in one area and the amp is mixed into that then I can see that causing serious problems.
I'll take the amp in to be safe at some point but right now, in my home, it just gave me a small shock with the ground switch down. It is now up and won't move from it's home until it sees a tech. I'm still going to play the poopie out of this thing until then.
Thanks for all the tips and suggestions guys...even the people who can't help but be rude because it gave me something to read :) Jesus loves you too.
 

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