Double Bass What to pair with my Crazy8?

[flbass82]

I really do appreciate the posts and links guys. I have only been in single-cab situations with DB (the very short amount of time I needed multiple cabs was back when I played EB too, and that was 2 matching GS112's), so any advice on multiple cab setup/science is good knowledge to have.

That is what I love about this forum. Instant answers and information at your fingertips!

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Well, I made that point quite strongly in this thread (post #4). In any case, the good news is that we agree completely. Pairing different cabs is always a gamble-- one that is often lost.

Yes, you said it first. Happy now?
Y'know sometimes your misplaced pedantry can be incredibly irritating. You must be really bored.
If you hadn't said something vague and potentially misleading like, "There's no magic to pairing with the same driver size." (which for the purpose of this discussion and the OP's needs and level of technical understanding is more or less not true) I would not have said a word.
Still happy?

 

[drurb]

Well, I'll tell you what's irritating is you poking in here and spending effort to spew venom rather than to contribute constructively. Talk about being bored! You decided to do that even when we agree about what's important. If you had actually taken the time to read what I had written here, you'd understand that the line about "no magic" was not vague at all. It was written after I had explained much more in post #4 (and in the linked post). You didn't need to "research every link in every thread" to see that. All you had to do was read what was here. Apparently, you didn't bother and added your misplaced post about my statement not being taken as "carte blanche" to go get any cabinet.

My statement is quite true. If you think there's an advantage to matching driver size, per se, across different cabs, then you are mistaken. It's bad advice to give. I've explained why. In this case, it's fact, not opinion.

I think I've helped the OP and others in this thread. Your distraction has, once again, detracted from what was a nice thread. About that, I'm not happy at all. I surmise others here are not as well.

 

[Roger Davis]

A week ago I did a monthly gig in a pub whose stage had lousy acoustics. I never take anything too big because all the lows are exaggerated - certainly never a twelve. I thought I'd try a Crazy 8 but in case that was a bit feeble I took a Wizzy 10 as an alternative, under a Clarus. The 8 sounded OK with a bit of tweaking and so did the 10. Then I tried them together and got a much improved sound so that is how I did the gig. No theory would appear to support what I did and the 8 was 8ohm and the 10 4ohm. But it worked.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Your distraction has, once again, detracted from what was a nice thread. About that, I'm not happy at all.

There's something hinky about you. For all your apparent helpfulness you've never convinced me you've done the basic work. Nothing you pontificate on ever requires having spent significant time in solitude with the instrument. You might know some things but in the bigger picture you're a charlatan. So why don't you just pipe down and conduct yourself with a little less concern for the sound of your own voice.

 

[drurb]

There's something hinky about you. For all your apparent helpfulness you've never convinced me you've done the basic work. Nothing you pontificate on ever requires having spent significant time in solitude with the instrument. You might know some things but in the bigger picture you're a charlatan. So why don't you just pipe down and conduct yourself with a little less concern for the sound of your own voice.

Your judgments and whether you are convinced are of little consequence, importance, or relevance. This thread is about the combination of cabs. I assure you that I have spent far more time developing professional expertise with regard to the relevant electronic and acoustic issues than you ever have or will be able to in your lifetime. For the subject at hand, I have gone well beyond the "basic work." Sharing that knowledge has been and continues to be appreciated by many. That you do not recognize any of this speaks to your own ignorance. Once again, you've come back to do nothing but sling arrows. Your approach is boorish.

 

[drurb]

A week ago I did a monthly gig in a pub whose stage had lousy acoustics. I never take anything too big because all the lows are exaggerated - certainly never a twelve. I thought I'd try a Crazy 8 but in case that was a bit feeble I took a Wizzy 10 as an alternative, under a Clarus. The 8 sounded OK with a bit of tweaking and so did the 10. Then I tried them together and got a much improved sound so that is how I did the gig. No theory would appear to support what I did and the 8 was 8ohm and the 10 4ohm. But it worked.

Hey Roger--
Sometimes you win the crapshoot. Apparently, the addition of the two cabs in that venue didn't result in any undesirable interference. As you say, how that would have worked would have been almost impossible to predict. That is, unless one had all the relevant measurements in advance which, for all practical purposes, would be impossible as well.

 

[Eric Hochberg]

For the record, drurb has been extremely gracious and helpful to me, going far beyond the call of duty as a member of this forum. I have sought out his advice many times regarding electronic and acoustical questions and problems, and I trust him implicitly for his superior knowledge of the subject.

I think it's more positive to brush off any minor (and in some cases, major) irritants that many, if not all of us, may bring to the table here from time to time.

 

[TroyK]

Yup.

 

[Jeff Bonny]

Mr. H you are the voice of reason. Irritated or not I was certainly ungracious. My apology to the group for that.

 

[Mike Arnopol]

Haven't read through the thread but I'd say---probably in agreement with many--obviously pairing with a second 8 would be successful. Pairing with a different cab could sound great---or terrible---you just have to try.

I'm not one of those who is adamant about not combining different cabs. They can sound great---or not. Obviously you have to start with simple rules like impedance. Other than that---you just have to try.

 

[SpottedBass]

I've got an Acme b1 8ohm and have used it with several other cabs - my advice is only pair it with another b1 - this cab needs about 25 pct more power to achieve the same volume as just about any other cab. Unless you are using a stereo amp that let's you balance power between 2 cabs (ie the Eden WT 600 / 800) the B1 won't be heard much as your other non acme cab will dominate your sound because - no matter what it is - it's probably more efficient (watts to db) than your acme. I am looking for a second 8ohm b1 as well. May have to buy it new if it does not show up used anywhere soon. I've owned many cabs and nothing has topped my b1 for the sound I am looking for.

 

[Greg Clinkingbeard]

I've got an Acme b1 8ohm and have used it with several other cabs - my advice is only pair it with another b1 - this cab needs about 25 pct more power to achieve the same volume as just about any other cab. Unless you are using a stereo amp that let's you balance power between 2 cabs (ie the Eden WT 600 / 800) the B1 won't be heard much as your other non acme cab will dominate your sound because - no matter what it is - it's probably more efficient (watts to db) than your acme. I am looking for a second 8ohm b1 as well. May have to buy it new if it does not show up used anywhere soon. I've owned many cabs and nothing has topped my b1 for the sound I am looking for.

Did you try the B1 with a Crazy 8? I've used a 4 ohm B1 with my Crazy 8 and it works quite well. Although I prefer using a pair of B1's, a B1 adds low end that is lacking in the 8. Getting back to the question of this thread, I'd be tempted to add another 8 but I honestly think something like a single B1 is a better option. The Crazy 8 is a nice little cabinet but it's low end limitation is apparent in direct comparison with a full range box.

 

[flbass82]

Did you try the B1 with a Crazy 8? I've used a 4 ohm B1 with my Crazy 8 and it works quite well. Although I prefer using a pair of B1's, a B1 adds low end that is lacking in the 8. Getting back to the question of this thread, I'd be tempted to add another 8 but I honestly think something like a single B1 is a better option. The Crazy 8 is a nice little cabinet but it's low end limitation is apparent in direct comparison with a full range box.

I was going to add another 8, because I am really wanting to try turning the top cab towards me and the bottom out/towards the band by taking advantage of the pole mounts.

Another question:

Is there a bag that will carry two C8's at the same time? I know the Meinl Cajon carries one plus amp/cables, etc....I have also seen an 88 fit snugly in a large cajon bag.

Anyone ever fit 2?

 

[Feral Feline]

You might have to go to a Djembe bag, or conga bag to fit two Crazy 8s.

At any rate, I'd seen many times in many threads "pair cabs that are identical" and apart from some basics about impedance and driver size making sense, nobody ever explained why "identical" — well, at least, I hadn't come across the detailed "why". So thanks for the linked info in post #4, Drurb, now I know the "why" beyond just matching impedance and driver size, but that the actual electro-mechanical apparatus of the driver means even two 10" speakers of the same impedance may or may not sound good together.

 

[drurb]

You might have to go to a Djembe bag, or conga bag to fit two Crazy 8s.

At any rate, I'd seen many times in many threads "pair cabs that are identical" and apart from some basics about impedance and driver size making sense, nobody ever explained why "identical" — well, at least, I hadn't come across the detailed "why". So thanks for the linked info in post #4, Drurb, now I know the "why" beyond just matching impedance and driver size, but that the actual electro-mechanical apparatus of the driver means even two 10" speakers of the same impedance may or may not sound good together.

Yup, you got it! You're quite welcome. I trust you also see that, while matching impedance can be an important component, matching driver size is not. To use your example, when considering all the parameters, two different cabs consisting of an 8" and a 10" could, by chance, work out better than two 10"s.

 

[Feral Feline]

Yup, for example pairing the Greenboy Fearless 110 with a 112 reportedly works well as they're both using drivers from the same family.

 

[flbass82]

You might have to go to a Djembe bag, or conga bag to fit two Crazy 8s.

At any rate, I'd seen many times in many threads "pair cabs that are identical" and apart from some basics about impedance and driver size making sense, nobody ever explained why "identical" — well, at least, I hadn't come across the detailed "why". So thanks for the linked info in post #4, Drurb, now I know the "why" beyond just matching impedance and driver size, but that the actual electro-mechanical apparatus of the driver means even two 10" speakers of the same impedance may or may not sound good together.

That article had it "click" for me, but it took me the second time drurb posted it to me (Maybe I was exhausted the first time reading and that is why it didn't sink in? Haha)

Anyway, everyone has always said "size" when talking about pairing drivers, but that doesn't always work out. After reading, I know that two drivers of the same size can be awesome together IF they have matching electrical/mechanical apparatus' within the drivers themselves. That is why matching brands works out so well. That brand uses generally the same types of drivers. Makes sense now!

Thanks, drurb!

 

[flbass82]

Also, going to check out the djembe bag. Thanks!

 

[drurb]

That article had it "click" for me, but it took me the second time drurb posted it to me (Maybe I was exhausted the first time reading and that is why it didn't sink in? Haha)

Anyway, everyone has always said "size" when talking about pairing drivers, but that doesn't always work out. After reading, I know that two drivers of the same size can be awesome together IF they have matching electrical/mechanical apparatus' within the drivers themselves. That is why matching brands works out so well. That brand uses generally the same types of drivers. Makes sense now!

Thanks, drurb!

You're welcome again! Now that you've digested that post, I can add that the sensitivity, phase, and frequency response of different cabs is really a function of the entire system. That is, the driver, the cabinet, and any crossover electronics. You could, for example, start with two identical drivers, place them in different cabs (which load them differently), and end up with a combination that's a disaster.

I'm guessing that the reason the Fearless 110 and 112 would play nice together stems largely from their being of closely related cab designs and closely related (the same brand) drivers.