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what type of 4x10cab would suit??

hey guys,

just about to upgrade my rig, at the moment, I'm playing a MIA fender jazz deluxe through a Markbass 12"combo hooked up with a markbass15 RJ. great sound, but need a bit more top end. there is a Ampeg SVT410HE going cheap, what do you think with that paired up with a little mark800 and the 15"???
or should i spend over budget and get a MB4x10 cab to match??
Cheers for the feedback.
 
Davis,
You're opening the can of worms with the 4x10 with the 1x15. I'll run away from that (looked up 'mixed cabs' in this forum for lots of information) but I'd say take your little mark800 and try it out with the Ampeg cab and see what you think. The conventional wisdom on this site is the 15" will struggle to be heard with the 4x10 so it's not adding anything to your sound. Unless you're playing with a really loud band, the 4x10 (maybe mounted on something) would be all you'll likely need. If it's not loud enough, a matched cab should be purchased to get all the goodness you're hoping for with the original cab, now just LOUDER.
Good luck.
 
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hey guys,

just about to upgrade my rig, at the moment, I'm playing a MIA fender jazz deluxe through a Markbass 12"combo hooked up with a markbass15 RJ. great sound, but need a bit more top end. there is a Ampeg SVT410HE going cheap, what do you think with that paired up with a little mark800 and the 15"???
or should i spend over budget and get a MB4x10 cab to match??
Cheers for the feedback.

1) Don't mix sealed cabs with ported cabs.

2) Don't mix ported cabs if different design for the cabs relates in considerable deviation of group delay at the low f-band. THIS is independent of driver size and can (theoretically) happen just with identical drivers loaded into different cabs. The chance to run into issues is slightly with even plausibility to cabs, and therefore independent of driver size.

If you read TB discussions carefully enough you will easily recognize that (as it just can be read on several current discussions) that TB ers dont bother about different cabs with matching driver size. At least they speak no warnings like so often addressed to the "can of worms" 410+115. That's a pure contradiction in itself (it's a paradox IMHO).

3) Don't mix cabs where HT response or cone response of drivers like 6" competes with response of (the other cab) woofers.

That's an "issue" that comes along mostly with different cabs loaded with same driver size. Woofer response is often somewhat different at the treble band thus crossover network for the HT is (often) different. In this case HT response may compete with woofer response of the other cab. Adding a 115 cab then this issue is less relevant because 115 cabs have different dispersion, mostly less response at the top end, and are mostly postioned at the bottom with the HT turned to off.
If I read correctly between the lines then currently a TB member asks for options how to solve those referenced "issues" with his "nearly matching" cabs.

4) don't put a 115 on top with HT turned on instead of the 115 cab at the bottom with HT turned off.
Self explaining if you read carefully 3)


Reading TB discussion carefully enough it is often suggested to put the 115 on top instead at the bottom.
IME that's plenty of good bet to run into sound issues.
In this case, that means if the cabs are wrong stacked and the wrong HT then turned on, no wonder this combination THEN receives so many sad reviews.

Sometimes folks try to do things that absolutely make no sense like put a 115 at top and 10's at the bottom.
I myself never had issues with the mixing of different driver size but, I never did such stupid things that make no sense and therefore would run me into trouble (terrible sound).
 
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The conventional wisdom on this site is the 15" will struggle to be heard with the 4x10 so it's not adding anything to your sound.
So I can tell you this conventional wisdom is wrong.

Unless driver specs are unknown it's correct to do the math with a rule of thumb based on cone surface.
So as you claim the 15" will struggle to be heard, and very likely this is assumption is based on "conventional wisdom" although driver specs are unknown

so let me allow to do it just the same way
Difference in SPL prediction based on total cone surface
410+410 versus 410+115
around 1 dB of difference

IMO a good example how a conventional wisdom like that may rather look like a myth
 
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So I can tell you this conventional wisdom is wrong.

Unless driver specs are unknown it's correct to do the math with a rule of thumb based on cone surface.
So as you claim the 15" will struggle to be heard, and very likely this is assumption is based on "conventional wisdom" although driver specs are unknown

so let me allow to do it just the same way
Difference in SPL prediction based on total cone surface
410+410 versus 410+115
around 1 dB of difference

IMO a good example how a conventional wisdom like that may rather look like a myth
Poppycock :roflmao:.
 
I still wonder why people want to mix anyway.
Premise:
Part 1- I have Cab A, but not fully satiisfied with its sound.
Part 2- But by adding a different cab, Cab B, and through the magic of smoke and mirrors, both of these will sound better than a matched pair of cabs.
Makes no sense at all.

Best bet is to buy a cab whose sound you like, and if you need to add SPL, height, whatever, buy a second of the same.
 
Davis,
You're opening the can of worms with the 4x10 with the 1x15. I'll run away from that (looked up 'mixed cabs' in this forum for lots of information) but I'd say take your little mark800 and try it out with the Ampeg cab and see what you think. The conventional wisdom on this site is the 15" will struggle to be heard with the 4x10 so it's not adding anything to your sound. Unless you're playing with a really loud band, the 4x10 (maybe mounted on something) would be all you'll likely need. If it's not loud enough, a matched cab should be purchased to get all the goodness you're hoping for with the original cab, now just LOUDER.
Good luck.
Thanks for the advice, the 12"combo wasn't cutting it for volume so l purchased the 15" sealed cab. Your right with the sound as l dont hear the combo anymore. I really love round sound of the 15, but it just needs a little more power. Would adding a second 15 do the trick or should l forget the 15's all together and just go the 10's. Thanks again..
 
I really love round sound of the 15, but it just needs a little more power.
WELCOME TO TALKBASS. A lot of great information and fun to be had. Your wallet will not thank you. :smug:
If you can bring your rig to the shop and try it with another 15 (same make and model) and see if you like it. 2x15 should be enough unless you are in a crazy loud rock band. Then try the 4x10 and see what you like better. If you like the 4x10 better than 2x15 see about a trade of your 15 towards the new cab.
 
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ThisBass, your math is based on surface area of the drivers involved, but ignores the disparity in power delivered to each driver in those cabs, to say nothing of the impedance issues which may ensue.

Raf
Good point.
Indeed I assumed 8 Ohm nominal for both cabs by default.
The power distribution to each speaker isn't relevant if improvement of efficiency is considered. In this case system input power is assumed to remain steady.
For example, comparing efficiency for identical driver loaded into 110 versus 410,
Although one driver of the 410 then receives only 1/4 power of the driver loaded in the 110, efficiency of the 410 cab is increased by roughly +6dB.

I hope you agree that 15" drivers "tend" to be more efficient then 10"s in between a driver family.
Let me simplify a little bit at this point, I arbitrarly assume +3dB for a 15" vers. 10".
In this case a 410 cab will provide +3dB more SPL then a 115 cab.

If there were two 8 Ohm cabs:
410 cab SPL 102 dB
115 cab SPL 99 dB

2x410 sum up to 105 dB SPL in total for 1 Watt system input power
410+115 sum up to 103.8 dB SPL in total 1 Watt system input power

If there was a SPL of 100 dB for the 115 then the math predicts:
410+115 sum up to 104.1 dB
 
Ok, my take on the 410+115 issue.

IMO/IME you should:
A. use a stereo (power)amp so you can level out the efficiency mismatch
B. use a 115 with a 15" driver that can shove some air (large xmax and ported)
C. (optional) use an active crossover on each cab. e.g. 115 gets 40-150hz and the 410 gets 150hz - whatever hurtz :roflmao:)

My 2 or 3 cents
 
Thanks for the advice, the 12"combo wasn't cutting it for volume so l purchased the 15" sealed cab. Your right with the sound as l dont hear the combo anymore. I really love round sound of the 15, but it just needs a little more power. Would adding a second 15 do the trick or should l forget the 15's all together and just go the 10's. Thanks again..

What kind of head? Solid state or Tube?

Adding a second driver adds a theoretical 3dB.
If your head is solid state, going from one driver at an 8 ohm load, to two drivers for a 4 ohm load, adds anywhere from 2~3dB.
(A tube head will output same watts regardless of ohms.)
So you have a potential gain of 6dB by running two 15's. That's a big gain.

And if you use matched cabs, you do not risk any acoustical interference between the two, and do not risk any output difference between the two.

Matched cabs always gives the most predictable result, the most increase in SPL, the best coupling, the best dispersion. Mixed cabs, even when from the same company, always involves a tradeoff or compromise, when added together.
 
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